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Avengers: Endgame SPOILERS
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890 posts in this topic

On 4/26/2019 at 9:18 AM, valiantman said:

This is definitely worth discussion. I really want someone to draw the flow of time like a graphic... even if we have to correct it after further discussion. (Not it!) :blush:

Watch the movie "Primer".

hm

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From the other thread:

 

"Say Green!" lol! Professor Hulk was pretty entertaining.

The Dude... LOL! Okay that was pretty damn funny. It didn't get old IMO.

Natasha dropping herself for the soul stone was a weak plot point.

Peter Parker coming back... instant lump in throat. Him and Pepper saying goodbye to Tony, allergies kicked in bigtime, along with the funeral scene.

Cap can summons and wield both Mjolnir and Stormbreaker... "I knew it", very cool, also liked the "I'll take the bigger one".

Dr. Strange opening up all the portals.... oh yeah, I loved the "WTF" look on Thanos's face when he saw it !

Liked the hat-tip to the Incredible Hulk Annual #1 cover.

Stan's cameo, meh. There's been better, there's been worse.

I'm glad Carol/Superman was side-dressing. You can fly through a fricking ship but not through Thanos's body. Derp. Hell, even Wanda did more damage to Thanos than Carol. Okay I guess if the Avengers ever need a smirking wreckingball to decommission a ship, they can send up the Pat-Signal and Carol will come back to, once again, fly through a baddie ship and then get her assh thrown across the battlefield.

It started with Iron-man and it ended with Iron-man.

Perfect way to close the circle on an amazing, once-in-a-lifetime run of movies.

There will never be a run of movies like this. The chemistry of the Avengers will never be matched. The future will be bigger, but not better. Different, but not improved. This is the best end to the best run.

Thanks Marvel.

 

Question: Did Cap "come back" via time travel, or did he just "live it out" knowing where to be to hand off the shield to Falcon? That time line above suggests he time travels back, but I think he lives 70 years in the main timeline and then just strolls on up to the bench and sits down at that moment. 

 

Edited by jcjames
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33 minutes ago, jcjames said:

From the other thread:

 

"Say Green!" lol! Professor Hulk was pretty entertaining.

The Dude... LOL! Okay that was pretty damn funny. It didn't get old IMO.

Natasha dropping herself for the soul stone was a weak plot point.

Peter Parker coming back... instant lump in throat. Him and Pepper saying goodbye to Tony, allergies kicked in bigtime, along with the funeral scene.

Cap can summons and wield both Mjolnir and Stormbreaker... "I knew it", very cool, also liked the "I'll take the bigger one".

Dr. Strange opening up all the portals.... oh yeah, I loved the "WTF" look on Thanos's face when he saw it !

Liked the hat-tip to the Incredible Hulk Annual #1 cover.

Stan's cameo, meh. There's been better, there's been worse.

I'm glad Carol/Superman was side-dressing. You can fly through a fricking ship but not through Thanos's body. Derp. Hell, even Wanda did more damage to Thanos than Carol. Okay I guess if the Avengers ever need a smirking wreckingball to decommission a ship, they can send up the Pat-Signal and Carol will come back to, once again, fly through a baddie ship and then get her assh thrown across the battlefield.

It started with Iron-man and it ended with Iron-man.

Perfect way to close the circle on an amazing, once-in-a-lifetime run of movies.

There will never be a run of movies like this. The chemistry of the Avengers will never be matched. The future will be bigger, but not better. Different, but not improved. This is the best end to the best run.

Thanks Marvel.

 

Question: Did Cap "come back" via time travel, or did he just "live it out" knowing where to be to hand off the shield to Falcon? That time line above suggests he time travels back, but I think he lives 70 years in the main timeline and then just strolls on up to the bench and sits down at that moment. 

 

I also really liked finally hearing “

Avengers Assemble !!”

- in regards to carol I agree but keep in mind .. she was battling him WITH the gauntlet while Wanda was without ( and she damn near killed him )

 

IMO Cap lived it out ... always at odds with Tony , they learned so much from each other ... I remember Tony and Steve’s banter in avengers 1 about the barbed wire and Tony’s talk of family life in this one ... it really was pretty amazing how Marvel tied 22 movies together without any retcon ... previous fox movies couldnt do 4. I’ll be in line for round 2 tomorrow as someone pointed out I missed Howard the Duck. Damn that movie is emotional and epic 

 

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11 minutes ago, sd2416 said:

How did Cap get an unbroken shield? 

So easy. He went back to a time in the past before the shield was broken by Thanos, which was any point in time in the past. My question is whatever time he went back to, how did he solve the two Steve Rogers issue? Did one of them have to die like in The Prestige?

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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19 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

So easy. He went back to a time in the past before the shield was broken by Thanos, which was any point in time in the past. My question is whatever time he went back to, how did he solve the two Steve Rogers issue? Did one of them have to die like in The Prestige?

I am guessing that one is still in the ice not being looked for since he "reappeared" after the plane with the cosmic cube was lost.

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1 minute ago, lpsunburst said:

I am guessing that one is still in the ice not being looked for since he "reappeared" after the plane with the cosmic cube was lost.

Riiiight, one's on ice. And since future Cap replaces lost Cap, there's no need to look for him unless they find him accidentally. Weird.

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5 minutes ago, lpsunburst said:

I am guessing that one is still in the ice not being looked for since he "reappeared" after the plane with the cosmic cube was lost.

But then where DID he get an unbroken shield if that reality's shield is on ice with that reality's Cap? Unless SHIELD had more than one shield?

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Just now, @therealsilvermane said:

But then where DID he get an unbroken shield if that reality's shield is on ice with that reality's Cap? Unless SHIELD had more than one shield?

ok, since we are into to total geek speculation...

what if he got on the plane and hid while Red Skull and Cap(A) fought it out, when Cap(A) took the controls of the plane Cap(B) grabs the shield and jumps out of the plane like he has done so many time before. He gets picked up by the SSR (Shield) who are already searching the area where the plane went down. How is that for fan fiction?

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9 minutes ago, lpsunburst said:

ok, since we are into to total geek speculation...

what if he got on the plane and hid while Red Skull and Cap(A) fought it out, when Cap(A) took the controls of the plane Cap(B) grabs the shield and jumps out of the plane like he has done so many time before. He gets picked up by the SSR (Shield) who are already searching the area where the plane went down. How is that for fan fiction?

A little out of character for Cap, but sure. Seriously, I think our Cap went back in time, found another shield through Peggy Carter who he married and lived a quiet life with. Maybe he did heroic things on the sly. When SHIELD found him on ice, our Cap laid low allowing that time's Cap to become Captain America. So there WERE two Caps in the same timeline. Old Cap laid low until the lake scene at the end. So weird.

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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9 hours ago, 40sJohn said:

1.  Was not a big fan of the BannerHulk.  It was borderline goofy to me.

2. I really expected Thor to be a bigger part of this story.  Not happy that they never put him back to peak form to take on Thanos.

Agreed.  I may have been a bigger fan of Professor Hulk if they explained it more. As for Thor, see my previous comment.

I did love the homage to Secret Wars #4 :banana:

bob-layton-secret-wars-no-4-cover-hulk-and-captain-america_a-L-13755229-13198931.jpg

Edited by Xenosmilus
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I was hoping Thor played a bigger role as well but Im happy he didnt die. I hope he comes back in any movie whether Guardians 3 or Thor 4. 

Fat Thor literally stole Mjolnir from past Thor. How will past Thor fight the Dark Elves now? 

 

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The way I perceived it was (as was explained by the ancient one to banner) that with Cap going back to return the stones and mjolnir to the point of time when they were taken, prevents alternate timelines and restores everything back to the one main timeline..

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Spoiler

This was about a 7/10 for me. Liked it, didn't love it.

What fell flat

1. Negating/downplaying the original cast. Killing Tony and Nat. Making Cap become geriatric and give up his shield. Thor being portrayed as a Fat Drunk buffoon. Banner now Smart Hulk (running on some level both characters, I liked having them separate). Clint's a sadistic genocidal maniac. I got it , you want a new franchise and had contract issues but you dont have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

2. Capt Marvel. She just isnt a likeable character. She just powers through everything randomly, no charisma or humor. It might just be Brie's acting, but I dont see a character to like. Some limited exposure to one 1/6 of the stones made her a god you say and can beat down/match someone wielding all 6 ACTUAL stones? Fine, give me something human then in the character. Give me some failing or frailty to identify with. Otherwise she is a comically overpowered god with no sense of humor or emotional core.

3. Scott Langs lack of emotional response to seeing his daughter after 5 years all grown up, basically missing out on her childhood nearly completely when you count prison...Didnt feel like it. The guy can act, let him.

4. Overall dialogue. Overall felt forced, not the quick wit and energy of previous films. Some funny lines but they felt like they were islands in a sea of words/exposition.

5. Smart Hulk animation...wow....that was horrible.

What was decent

1. Fight scene after Cap says the line. Good energy and interplay. Everyone got a moment in the sun.

2. Space effects: Well done and creatively used.

3. Giant Man SMASH! That was total wish fulfillment for me.

 

What was awesome

1. Nebula. Cant believe I'm saying this, but she was my favorite (after Stark of course) this time around. Her character is so fascinating and nuanced. She is everything Brie/Marvel are not. She was written smartly, the football scene was amazing in its subtly and humanity. The arc of her life is amazing, evolving from this broken abused person to noble caring hero was a creation of great writing and superb acting. She is now to me core, I want to see her in more movies.

2. Frigga and Thor. It was perfect. Rene Russo is a excellent actress and she played the part so well. It felt like what you would expect between a superhero and his mom talking. It lent a human moment and gave her character something special.

3. Smart Hulk and The Ancient One. She was such a great character and her interaction was more then just exposition theater. I loved seeing them debate the nature of time travel and then come to the realization of what Strange had committed to by giving him the stone. Again, greater acting chops produce greater results. It was easily my favorite smart hulk scene too

4. Cap Hammer! You KNEW when you saw Mjolnir move when cap tried to pick it up in Avengers 2, that he could actually pick it up. If it moves at all, you are worthy. There is no "sorta pregnant", you are worthy or not. I loved getting the payoff. It worked so well. God i wish there was more of that. Shield and hammer together...god how great would that be to watch?!?

5. Robert Downey Jr. He made all of this possible by just being awesome as Stark. He was not only perfectly cast in the role, his real life personality got you personally invested in the actors and the work itself beyond just the films.

 

Some cheese parts you didn't need, lot of intentional "killing off the old guard to get ready to sell the new line of toys" writing I could do without, but overall a quality movie. Order of best to worst Avengers movies is

1. Avengers: Infinity War

2. The Avengers

3. Avengers: End Game

4. Avengers: Age of Ultron

 

 

 

Edited by zhamlau
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1 hour ago, Nino_013 said:

The way I perceived it was (as was explained by the ancient one to banner) that with Cap going back to return the stones and mjolnir to the point of time when they were taken, prevents alternate timelines and restores everything back to the one main timeline..

Smart. Ya he brought back the hammer as well when he went back. Totally forgot. Will watch again. 

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It was a fitting end to an incredible run of movies.  I like how they ended Caps arc.  I really thought they were going to have him die in battle, so I was glad how they surprised me there.  

When they killed Thanos at the beginning and it jumped to 5 years later, it threw me for a loop.  Just not what I was expecting.  

It had a few issues, but not many.  It was long, but it went by pretty quickly (felt quicker than Civil War and Captain Marvel).  

The Russos did a fine job with a nearly impossible task.  

 

 

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I thought it was very good to great - a few plot holes here and there - but that is to be expected. 

I thought it would have been better to have Cap give the ultimate sacrifice and die in battle versus Thanos - but you knew it was going to be Tony when Howard Stark said something along the lines of: “There have been far to few times when the greater good outweighed my self interest”

But seeing Cap with the Hammer and Shield was awesome! Are we to assume that with the Hammer he has Thor’s strength as well?

Fat Thor got a bit old - wish that when he had the lightning course through him and his facial hair changed that he also went back to in shape Thor :) 

I also wish we saw Hulk do Hulk things and fight Thanos again and his minion who got squashed by Ant Man. 

But it was a great ride!

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I figured it was always going to be Tony that “fixed” everything, sacrificing himself in the process (you knew that way back in IG when Strange traded the time stone for Tony’s life).  You’re right about the line by his father.  That sealed it.

Also agree with you about Thor.  It was entertaining at first, but I would’ve liked to see him transform back into the fit Thor.  Minor nitpicking in all though.  

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