Avengers: Endgame SPOILERS 1 1

[Bosco685]

12 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

The dude said he was basically done with the MCU because he loves only Iron Man and Captain America. The only other comic book universe to turn to is the DCEU.  And I think we can all agree that because of Zach Snyder that universe has been on the average subpar. I loved Wonder Woman, thought Shazam! was good. But the MCU is so compelling now, I just don't understand the equal "hate" people have for Marvel just because they're trying to give women a more prominent role in the franchise. Last I checked we're in the 21st century and...oh wait, that guy's still president...never mind...

I think you played the Jumping To Conclusions Game, and took it to your deep hate of the supposed 'DCEU' films. He noted he was done with the MCU because of those characters being gone, so your first response was go help DC because they need the money?

He didn't take it there. You did!

Edited April 29, 2019 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

3 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

Google Thanos. Click this (I hope this stays there forever):

This was mentioned the other day. But so cool to check it out again. A sharp Google art piece.

[Comicopolis]

An earthquake under the sea is just an earthquake.

Or is it?

[bronze_rules]

 1Not that anyone is going to care too much (suspension of disbelief and all), but got to thinking that if you accept multiple timelines (branches, parallel universes etc..), which you must for any semblance of logic, then the reality of IG1 timeline is that they are all still dead (or trapped in soul gem universe, I'd buy that). Because any alteration of any past must inevitably spawn billions of new timelines, none exactly matching the IG1 present. How do we reconcile Cap and team time jumping in the IG 1 present? Simply they jumped to alternate branches with alternate outcomes (which we watched). Maybe they don't come out (stuck in alternate timeline) or just come out identical as they are now. I.e. when the true unique to IG1 characters come out, if they do, they think nothing changed, no objects are in hand, whereas in the alternate IG2 timeline, we see what we watched in IG2. Anyways, just musing some more. Kind of interesting that in real time travel theory (yeah, theory, wormholes and tunnels) the moment someone sees themselves at a different moment the wormhole collapses and crushes them. It's like Shroedinger's cat, once the probabilities collapse to reality, only one true outcome survives. In this case, it's the new IG 2 outcome, that is independent of the IG1 outcome. I like the parallel outcomes though. Knowing that in some other universe, we did our absolute best and made all the correct decisions.

Edited April 29, 2019 by bronze_rules

[ExNihilo]

50 minutes ago, bronze_rules said:

 1Not that anyone is going to care too much (suspension of disbelief and all), but got to thinking that if you accept multiple timelines (branches, parallel universes etc..), which you must for any semblance of logic, then the reality of IG1 timeline is that they are all still dead (or trapped in soul gem universe, I'd buy that). Because any alteration of any past must inevitably spawn billions of new timelines, none exactly matching the IG1 present. How do we reconcile Cap and team time jumping in the IG 1 present? Simply they jumped to alternate branches with alternate outcomes (which we watched). Maybe they don't come out (stuck in alternate timeline) or just come out identical as they are now. I.e. when the true unique to IG1 characters come out, if they do, they think nothing changed, no objects are in hand, whereas in the alternate IG2 timeline, we see what we watched in IG2. Anyways, just musing some more. Kind of interesting that in real time travel theory (yeah, theory, wormholes and tunnels) the moment someone sees themselves at a different moment the wormhole collapses and crushes them. It's like Shroedinger's cat, once the probabilities collapse to reality, only one true outcome survives. In this case, it's the new IG 2 outcome, that is independent of the IG1 outcome. I like the parallel outcomes though. Knowing that in some other universe, we did our absolute best and made all the correct decisions.

sorry what?  that's a lot of words for an already complex discussion (time travel is just inherently...complicated).

As I understand it (and i only did like college intro to physics so I'm likely way off base), but going back in time and taking the stone creates a branched universe (as described by The Ancient One).  Tony's chrono MacGuffin allows the heroes to return to their prime universe in order to use the gauntlet and return everyone home.  As soon as the job is done, Steve returns all 6 stones back to where they were taken from.  Effectively, only seconds would have passed in the other multiverses (for example as soon as Hulk disappeared with the time stone from The Ancient One, Steve would have popped up mere seconds later to give it back), meaning no one would be the wiser and nothing would have changed, thus maintaining the prime timeline.

Now, in some cases, things changed in these alternate branches creating alternate realities.  For example, once Thanos learned that the heroes were in his timeline, he altered the course of what he did in the Prime universe, thus irrevocably creating a branched universe.  And as soon as he was dusted, that branched universe now continues onward as though Thanos ceased to exist from 2014 onwards.

Where I get confused is Steve traveling back in time.  By being with Peggy, he clearly alters the past and thus creates a new branch.  So how does he wind up on the bench?  (And with the shield no less.)  By all accounts, the only way back for him into the prime universe would be via the chrono MacGuffin.

[Comicopolis]

 

 

 

 

 

 

5

10 minutes ago, ExNihilo said:

sorry what?  that's a lot of words for an already complex discussion (time travel is just inherently...complicated).

As I understand it (and i only did like college intro to physics so I'm likely way off base), but going back in time and taking the stone creates a branched universe (as described by The Ancient One).  Tony's chrono MacGuffin allows the heroes to return to their prime universe in order to use the gauntlet and return everyone home.  As soon as the job is done, Steve returns all 6 stones back to where they were taken from.  Effectively, only seconds would have passed in the other multiverses (for example as soon as Hulk disappeared with the time stone from The Ancient One, Steve would have popped up mere seconds later to give it back), meaning no one would be the wiser and nothing would have changed, thus maintaining the prime timeline.

Now, in some cases, things changed in these alternate branches creating alternate realities.  For example, once Thanos learned that the heroes were in his timeline, he altered the course of what he did in the Prime universe, thus irrevocably creating a branched universe.  And as soon as he was dusted, that branched universe now continues onward as though Thanos ceased to exist from 2014 onwards.

Where I get confused is Steve traveling back in time.  By being with Peggy, he clearly alters the past and thus creates a new branch.  So how does he wind up on the bench?  (And with the shield no less.)  By all accounts, the only way back for him into the prime universe would be via the chrono MacGuffin.

I had a shot at trying to explain this a few posts earlier.

[ExNihilo]

11 hours ago, Comicopolis said:

The massive plot hole in the room is the one mentioned above about how Thanos was able to travel to the future with that vast army of ships. We see the traitorous Nebula turn the machine on and say something like ‘the gateway is open’ so it appears to work differently than the Stark tech and the Pym Particles which allowed individuals to travel through time. I mean, how can she communicate through time? Thanos and his goons don’t come through the Quantum Gate because they’re in the sky when they attack Avengers Mansion. So, this has to be a different method of time travel but one which needs an anchor at both ends. This is a version of what Bronze posted above about Thanos reverse engineering time-travel. And to answer the question he posed about why not appear at an earlier point in time, I’m guessing Thanos needed to come through that particular Quantum Gate which must have created a portal greater than the machine itself, hence them appearing in space or Earth’s atmosphere. 

Nebula handed Thanos a vile of the Pym Particles.  I assumed he reverse engineered that and shrunk the ship down.  That's why he's able to emerge from the Quantum Gate and goes smashing through the roof as the ship flies upward while expanding to its normal size.

[Bird]

There was a link to where someone explains the logic that the Writers used but one of the key concepts is that when all six stones are not in the reality then the rules of time and reality change

So when Thanos destroyed the stones the rules cease to exist or something like that

That was the point of the ancient one and Banner’s talk they wanted us to understand that

Edited April 29, 2019 by Bird

[zosocane]

Another question.  So if Steve returned all the stones to where they belonged, did the Time Stone go back into Dr. Strange's eye-necklace thing to be guarded at the Sanctum Sanctorum?  Or did it go back to The Ancient One, as Dr. Banner promised to do?

Edited April 30, 2019 by zosocane

[ExNihilo]

2 minutes ago, zosocane said:

Another question.  So if Steve returned all the stones to where they belonged, did the Time Stone go back into Dr. Strange's eye-necklace thing to be guarded at the Sanctum Sanctorum?  Or did it go back to The Ancient One, as Dr. Banner promised to do?

It went back to the Ancient One.  Everything needs to be replaced pretty much at the exact moment they were taken.  Thus from the Ancient One's perspective, the stone was only taken from her for a few seconds.

Edited April 30, 2019 by ExNihilo

[fastballspecial]

5 hours ago, krighton said:

11 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

Alright, so, Top-5 moments of Endgame for everyone..? In no particular order, for me:

• Thor summoning the lightning, transforming, and dual-wielding Mjolnir and Stormbreaker.
• Cap dual-wielding, and using, both his shield and Mjolnir.
• Return of The Decimated, with Cap saying, "Avengers Assemble".
• Iron Man and Rescue fighting side-by-side.
• "I am Iron Man" and the final snap.

I know, it's all in the last 45 minutes-or-so, but the greatness of the first 2 Acts just sets up such better moments in the 3rd.

Cap summoning Mjolnir was all the 'feel goods' i needed from the entire movie...they've been dangling that carrot for years and finally came through.

4 out of 5. I would add the Hulk holding up all that debris as the Secret Wars Homage instead of Iron Man and Rescue.

 

[Straw-Man]

4 hours ago, ChasingKingKirby said:

I agree Marvel has had stellar results for the most part. Doesn't mean they're above reproach or haven't put out some baaaad, (yes suicide squad bad) movies.  For every Infinity War there's at least one Iron Man 3.  Or the god awful Iron Fist on Netflix.  

since we’re all about the sanctity of opinions, here’s mine:  trying to make a point by positing an equivalence between the quality of IM3 and suicide squad indicts your judgment and gets you a zero on movie criticism.  in my opinion.

 

[ChasingKingKirby]

3 hours ago, fmaz said:

I've stayed away until today... saw this yesterday but needed 24 hours to decompress.  LOL.  My first reaction was that this movie could not have been more for and about fans of both the movies and the comics if they'd tried.  It was 3+ hours of wonderful fan-service moments both enormous (Cap picking up the hammer) and tiny (Hope and Scott sharing a look after she'd called Steve "Cap") to pull two out of a list of a hundred.  And I know it's time travel, so if you pull too much on any string things start to unravel... but they did a wonderful job of setting up the universe for where they want to go from here. They don't have an Avengers team per se, but since I doubt there'll be a new Avengers movie for some time... that's ok for now.  The GoTG are in an interesting place with or without Thor... and they're set to start building a new generation of heroes at the same time they start to explore the cosmic side of things.

Mostly though? Today I had this one overriding thought - and please realize that I don't mean this in the slightest as a criticism or judgement... but I feel sorry for anyone who didn't just love that movie.  People might pick nits, or feel one character didn't get quite as much screen time as they hoped, etc... but if you're a comic fan and you didn't love that... I just feel sorry for you.  Because that was made for you, and it was wonderful.  And I'm not sure it gets any better than that.  So while, like I said, people can like what they like, and criticize whatever they chose to... all I'm saying is that I feel sad that there could be comic fans who did not experience the same joy that most of us did from that movie.  Because it was a memorable and unique movie going experience, of the type that those of us who were touched by it will remember for a long, long time.  And I hate the idea that some people who I know love comics and these characters as much as I do missed out on what I experienced.

 

 

Beautifully said...   I think for most of us, this movie was a childhood dream come to life.  I fret about the movies of the future and nitpick this one, but it was epic.   Sheer joy and excitement that took me back to the 1970s spinning that old spinner rack at the drug store eagerly looking for the new Cap comic.   I took my daughters to see End Game, and seeing the wonder in their eyes brought tears to mine.   Doesn’t get much better than that.  

[ChasingKingKirby]

4 minutes ago, Straw-Man said:

since we’re all about the sanctity of opinions, here’s mine:  trying to make a point by positing an equivalence between the quality of IM3 and suicide squad indicts your judgment and gets you a zero on movie criticism.  in my opinion.

 

Really?   Iron Man 3 was completely unenjoyable to me.  Suicide squad was bad but I didn’t have the same sort of visceral dislike for it.   But, hey, that’s your opinion.   You’re entitled to it.  My post Seems to have rubbed you the wrong way.  Not sure why...  

[Straw-Man]

nah, we’re all good.  i just eyeball-roll whenever i see someone contend there is an mcu flick as bad as ss or jl. 

[ChasingKingKirby]

27 minutes ago, Straw-Man said:

nah, we’re all good.  i just eyeball-roll whenever i see someone contend there is an mcu flick as bad as ss or jl. 

It’s a different degree of “bad”.  I have lower expectations of DC across the board, so I’m literally almost never disappointed.   The last two iron man movies left me cold.  Justice League and Batman v Superman were unwatchable.   Suicide squad had me rolling.   I don’t think it was intended as comedy, but hey.  I will say Shazam was decent.  Bordering on quite good.

[Bosco685]

29 minutes ago, Straw-Man said:

nah, we’re all good.  i just eyeball-roll whenever i see someone contend there is an mcu flick as bad as ss or jl. 

As tampered with as JL? Certainly not.

As oddly pulled together as Suicide Squad? Please. Thor 2 is just as bad. There are scenes fans can surely appreciate. But also so much to dismiss and dislike, it earned its spot at the bottom.

Endgame helps bring value to it. But again, just certain scenes.

[Bosco685]

4 minutes ago, ChasingKingKirby said:

Batman v Superman were unwatchable.

 

I will say Shazam was decent.  Bordering on quite good.

Unwatchable? Yet you watched it. Hmmm.

Shazam scoring as high as Wonder Woman with a solid 'A' Cinemascore conveys how solid it was. Release scheduling though - C.

[ChasingKingKirby]

1 minute ago, Bosco685 said:

Unwatchable? Yet you watched it. Hmmm.

Shazam scoring as high as Wonder Woman with a solid 'A' Cinemascore conveys how solid it was. Release scheduling though - C.

 

Touche.   Unwatchable for a second viewing.   I slept through Batman v Superman.   JLA was really bad but I did power through.  

I like Shazam far more than I did Wonder Woman.  Damn shame that DC screwed up the advertising for it so badly.

[ChasingKingKirby]

15 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

As tampered with as JL? Certainly not.

As oddly pulled together as Suicide Squad? Please. Thor 2 is just as bad. There are scenes fans can surely appreciate. But also so much to dismiss and dislike, it earned its spot at the bottom.

Endgame helps bring value to it. But again, just certain scenes.

Many of the MCU movies are a little lackluster.  The first two Thors, second two Iron Mans, First Cap wasn’t great, Second Avengers.