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Avengers: Endgame SPOILERS
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890 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, ChasingKingKirby said:

Many of the MCU movies are a little lackluster.  The first two Thors, second two Iron Mans, First Cap wasn’t great, Second Avengers. 

I'm a big fan of that first Thor. So much of it works for me, I put it in my Top 10 for MCU films.

Story referencing to key lore. Casting. Even the soundtrack works for this one. For me, I guess.

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My thought on the Cap going back in time is that he initially returned five of the stones.  He then went back to live with Peggy after WWII. Since he's already lived a lifetime of adventure, he could now live his "normal", low-key life with the love of his life.  He lived this out in the alternate timeline until Peggy passed away.  At this point, he used the Pym particles to travel back and replace the final infinity stone, thereby collapsing the alternate timelines back.  Cap then either lived out the remaining years in timeline prime until the time came for his seat at the bench, or more likely he used the final Pym particles to return post-undo-snap and went and sat down at the bench with the shield.

This would be a risky and selfish move on Cap's part, but he does deserve the happiness...and he is Captain America after all (and thus would most likely survive long enough to return the final stone).

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I loved it from beginning to end. I didn't find it was slow or boring at any point, like some have suggested. It will be a real challenge for Marvel to top this & I'm anxious to see them try. My only real issue with Endgame is that they didn't bring Vision back. They brought back just about everyone else, even if it was just for a small cameo. I can get past anything else I didn't totally agree with. They probably did it purposely because he would have been one of the strongest Avengers & likely outshined the others. I guess they wanted to leave room for to Captain Marvel to shine towards the end instead. I'm interested in seeing how they bring him back for WandaVision.

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It is hard to know in comics when someone is really dead. Is Tony Stark dead dead?

If so that would have to mean no more movies with the Tony Stark character. 

I’d been hoping there would be an Armor Wars based movie in the future. However, no Tony Stark = no Armor Wars. 

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Fantastic deep dive Q&A with screenwriters Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely in the NYTimes... it's behind a paywall for non-subscribers (sorry!) but you get free reads on the site so unless you've used them up this month, you should be able to check it out... or worst case, wait until Wednesday...

Avengers : Endgame Q&A With Screenwriters in New York Times

Edited by fmaz
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Finally saw it. A comic fans dream comes true. Epic movie.

One thing about Thor. I understand he is devastated by the past events, but I would have restored his power level during the final battle. Remember that at the end of Infinity War he is so powerful that with the Stormbreaker he is able to win against Thanos with the fully powered gauntlet. He trows his axe to Thanos against the blast from the gauntlet (remember, the gauntlet full with the six gems) and he hit him (but not in the head).

A lot of epic moments, I'd add the scene where Tony steals the gems from Thanos. Thanos is wearing the tech gauntlet made by Stark, I guess it's made with the same nanotech he used for his armor. So in some way, the gauntlet obeys Tony Stark commands, just like his armor. When he touches the gauntlet, the nano-particles of the gauntlet and the armor fuses together and he is able to switch the gems from the gauntlet to the armor. I loved how the gems goes from the elbow up to the fist. "I am Iron Man"......snap.....epic cinematic.

9 out of 10

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5 hours ago, buyatari said:

It is hard to know in comics when someone is really dead. Is Tony Stark dead dead?

If so that would have to mean no more movies with the Tony Stark character. 

I’d been hoping there would be an Armor Wars based movie in the future. However, no Tony Stark = no Armor Wars. 

Like Natasha (for some reason), Tony must remain dead as if they brought him back through time travel it could undue the good he accomplished in the end). I think.

Though, Bruce did say at one point something along the lines of 'your past self can't affect your future'. So if OLD Tony is brought forward, then by that rule he can't undo what NEW Tony achieved to save the universe. Right?

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5 hours ago, buyatari said:

It is hard to know in comics when someone is really dead. Is Tony Stark dead dead?

If so that would have to mean no more movies with the Tony Stark character. 

I’d been hoping there would be an Armor Wars based movie in the future. However, no Tony Stark = no Armor Wars. 

I think if Tony Stark were to come back at all in the MCU it would be as an AI. It would kind of sync with his tech legacy that he'd become his own creation in the end. You saw a hint of that at the end of Endgame. And all RDJ would have to provide is his voice if he's game and Disney wants to pay him. Anybody could be inside the Iron Man armor, or nobody. 

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One benefit of Tony Stark leaving the picture is now everybody has to up their game, and that would be a good thing. It got too easy for the filmmakers to just have Stark dream up a device and problem solved. It was kind of a Mary Sue of technology and it got to be too much, I think. Now Banner, Hank Pym and Shuri will have to be the big tech brains until Reed Richards finally comes along in a few years. 

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15 hours ago, krighton said:

without Tony Stark and Capt America i wont be watching any B rated super heroes......they'll probably turn the Avengers into A-Force with an all female cast...it almost seemed like that one moment in the film was leading up to the that....and Captain Marvel, get a new haricut, looked horrible.

We'll see.

I don't care for her haircut, either. Good thing that hair was sparingly in the movie. lol

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Saw it yesterday and it's somewhat bittersweet I guess... overall I’d say a 7 out of 10. I wouldn’t go to the theater to see it again. Not at 3 hours.

The final battle scene is amazing. Captain Marvel was awesome and I can’t wait for her next movie. Glad that Iron Man, Cap, and Thor… let’s face it, the REAL main original Avengers, get major face time in this battle.

It’s a good… fake wrap up to things, but… it also introduces many of the same problems that the comics have had and it’s going to be interesting to see how it is or isn’t accepted.

Let’s face it. The Stones have created an issue… you’ve brought back half the universe, so… you’re not going to bring back the one guy who sacrificed his life to do it?

Iron Man’s death felt like a cheap ploy for trying to add extra sympathy to the movie. He didn’t HAVE to die. And don’t even get me started on how he got a funeral, with all of these characters making an appearance at it and the heroes going on and on, while… Black Widow’s death was kind of a blip.

And speaking of: Why couldn't it be Hawkeye who sacrifices himself? Wouldn't that have been more dramatic, as he has a family and sacrificing himself for the good of the universe would've been on par with what Tony Stark did? Instead, we get Black Widow, who ends up with one of the worst story arcs of any of the MCU characters - introduced as a 'vixen' from the beginning, and considered a failure because she can't reproduce - she sacrifices HER life because Hawkeye DOES have a biologically created family. (Go back and watch her middle scenes in Ultron - she calls herself a ‘monster’ because she can’t conceive and her scenes in IM2, as a ‘sexpot’ are kind of embarrassing, for someone who’s supposed to be an A-list Avenger…)

Plus if Hawkeye did it, we'd never have to endure Jeremy Renner and his terrible haircut ever again in these movies.

Personally, I feel the Black Widow movie may never happen. I think Marvel promised it, thinking they’d do it, but more as an answer to, ‘Why hasn’t there been a female led superhero movie for Marvel yet?’ Now they don’t have to answer that question any longer (though it now becomes,’How come only ONE?’), and really WHY would you make a prequel movie about a character who has no future arc, or place in what goes forward?

Maybe to showcase Iron Man when he was alive, or Cap in his prime again, or Thor, trim and toned? In other words, another dude movie. It’d work - everyone would love to see that, but it wouldn’t be because of HER character.

Besides, once again, with access to the Stones she doesn’t HAVE to be dead anyway. My money’s on that IS eventually what happens to all of the past characters. We WILL see them again in some form of NOW, because that’s what comics do, and …. pretty sure that's what the movies will do too.

Which cheapens it all.

First two hours were good, a bit long, but still entertaining. Some of the humor is a bit obnoxious - you’re trying to travel time, you can’t make a mistake, the fate of 50% of the Universe’s population is at stake and… you’re making jokes about how good your azz looks? Ugh.

Still, I enjoyed it or whatever. Sort of like drinking a Mountain Dew at the age of 55. Tastes good, gives me a caffeine jolt, though an hour later I’m a bit put off by it and not in a hurry to have another. I still liked Captain Marvel movie more.

Enjoyed seeing Jim Starlin in the movie. I hope they never make a Warlock movie or feature that character. I know everyone seems to want that but… this isn’t the Gamora I know from the comics, or the Drax - it’s something different - and I’m cool with that, but… no need to do it with Warlock. I’m ok.

Nothing here in this movie said, ‘this is the new leader of the Avengers’. In fact, it looks as if there IS no more Avengers team. Renners off with family (good), Widow is gone (good), Cap is an old man (weird), Iron Man is dead (bad), and Thor is fat (bad).

The next Avengers will bring together the remaining heroes only because of some threat to earth… and they’ll team up because they have to. And we’ll see the old guys on the sidelines ‘directing’ them. Can’t have a couple of black guys, a little boy, and a bunch of women leading themselves in the Marvel Universe. That's too progressive for Marvel.

So what are the upcoming movies?

Spider-man 2 (boy, talk about a character who was a non-issue in this Endgame movie. Simply there to be the sympathy rag for Stark, he is clearly NOT the star of the upcoming phase.) This is now the last movie of Phase 3.

Captain Marvel 2 (Clearly a force in the MCU, but her stories are going to be more outside of the earth, but possibly connecting with Thor/GOTG - which is cool)

GOTG 3 - Okay. Hope it’s better than 2.. how about bringing in Ben Grimm?

Black Panther 2 - They need to power him up. A minor factor in Endgame, if he’s to be a force in the next phase, he needs to be powered up. THERE is your next Iron man.

…. what else? Shang Chi? The Eternals? Doctor Strange 2? The Wasp???

We need the Fantastic Four. and Nova.

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15 hours ago, krighton said:

without Tony Stark and Capt America i wont be watching any B rated super heroes......they'll probably turn the Avengers into A-Force with an all female cast...it almost seemed like that one moment in the film was leading up to the that....and Captain Marvel, get a new haricut, looked horrible.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

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3 hours ago, marmat said:

Finally saw it. A comic fans dream comes true. Epic movie.

One thing about Thor. I understand he is devastated by the past events, but I would have restored his power level during the final battle. Remember that at the end of Infinity War he is so powerful that with the Stormbreaker he is able to win against Thanos with the fully powered gauntlet. He trows his axe to Thanos against the blast from the gauntlet (remember, the gauntlet full with the six gems) and he hit him (but not in the head).

A lot of epic moments, I'd add the scene where Tony steals the gems from Thanos. Thanos is wearing the tech gauntlet made by Stark, I guess it's made with the same nanotech he used for his armor. So in some way, the gauntlet obeys Tony Stark commands, just like his armor. When he touches the gauntlet, the nano-particles of the gauntlet and the armor fuses together and he is able to switch the gems from the gauntlet to the armor. I loved how the gems goes from the elbow up to the fist. "I am Iron Man"......snap.....epic cinematic.

9 out of 10

I'm pretty sure that Thor is at Infinity War power level and then some considering he's dual-wielding Mjolnir and Stormbreaker.

Thanos didn't have his Uru Sword in Avengers 3. With the Gauntlet complete, he also underestimated how powerful Stormbreaker is.

I think the Russo Bros. really wanted to showcase how powerful Thanos is without the Gauntlet in this one. I don't think they under-powered Thor at all (relative to previous films).

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Biggest laugh in the film?  When Pepper Potts stood there in her armor, audience laughed for quite a bit....they missed comedy gold not having her daughter beside her in baby armor and saying 'no time to find a babysitter'.

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32 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Iron Man’s death felt like a cheap ploy for trying to add extra sympathy to the movie. He didn’t HAVE to die. And don’t even get me started on how he got a funeral, with all of these characters making an appearance at it and the heroes going on and on, while… Black Widow’s death was kind of a blip.

And speaking of: Why couldn't it be Hawkeye who sacrifices himself? Wouldn't that have been more dramatic, as he has a family and sacrificing himself for the good of the universe would've been on par with what Tony Stark did? Instead, we get Black Widow, who ends up with one of the worst story arcs of any of the MCU characters - introduced as a 'vixen' from the beginning, and considered a failure because she can't reproduce - she sacrifices HER life because Hawkeye DOES have a biologically created family. (Go back and watch her middle scenes in Ultron - she calls herself a ‘monster’ because she can’t conceive and her scenes in IM2, as a ‘sexpot’ are kind of embarrassing, for someone who’s supposed to be an A-list Avenger…)

I had a few gripes with Endgame, too, but after a second view, my gripes that I guess were born out of personal  expectations went out the window, and I love the movie. I like how Marvel Studios is taking more risks with their storytelling, from Ragnarok to Black Panther to Captain Marvel and this movie, they're experimenting now because they can afford to, and I like it.

Did Tony Stark have to die? At that point in the battle, it was maybe 50/50. Strange, with a little party trick, fooled Thanos into thinking he had the actual Gauntlet, which bought everybody some time and allowed Tony to get the real Gauntlet With Thor and Danvers, they could have all ganged up on Thanos as the mothership was now destroyed though there were still thousands of alien soldiers left. Tony could have given the Gauntlet to Carol Danvers, but he didn't, he made the decision to end it once and for all, and without asking Carol or Thor to possibly sacrifice themselves. He sacrificed himself to end any chance of Thanos getting the Gauntlet back and wiping out the universe. He didn't have to use the Gauntlet, but I think it was a logical choice. It was his tech, and even though he can be a jerk at times, Stark really was a hero, and proved it at that moment. 

I also think it made sense that Black Widow made the sacrifice. Clint made peace with his past already, he moved on. Natasha never could. She'd been looking for a way to clear her ledger since Phase One. I think she cleared it in Endgame.

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Have to remember, that we could get some characters back — specifically Black Widow — if they go down the road of Secret Invasion at any point.  For example, THAT could be the twist of the Black Widow solo prequel movie.  It could be her pre-Avengers life, and maybe her entire life UP until we see her being abducted and replaced in a post-credit scene.

In that scenario, much like the way the MCU handled the Infinity War/Gauntet story... “Secret Invasion” would obviously be simply a jumping off point for a very different version of that story that they would tell.  Heck, it might be used ONLY to bring Natasha back... or the post-credit scene of her movie might be shots of various characters in the MCU being taken.  That would actually be pretty cool.

The one thing I know for sure is that whatever they do with the MCU going forward, I’ll plunk down my cash and watch it.

I still remember so many people here (present company included, I assume... I forget LOL)  being up in arms going “Guardians of the Galaxy? There’s so many more interesting movies to make than that! Who wants to see that?”  They’ve earned my trust and faith 1,000 times over by now.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said:

Personally, I feel the Black Widow movie may never happen. I think Marvel promised it, thinking they’d do it, but more as an answer to, ‘Why hasn’t there been a female led superhero movie for Marvel yet?’ Now they don’t have to answer that question any longer (though it now becomes,’How come only ONE?’), and really WHY would you make a prequel movie about a character who has no future arc, or place in what goes forward?

Black Widow has a writer, a director, is partially cast. It's happening and is coming out next year. I think if it's a prequel, it may tie in to the Disney Plus shows so that it serves a future story arc. If it's present day, a cosmic Black Widow story where she somehow escapes the Soul Stone (which has been done in the comics) would be out of this world. But I think it's a prequel with a story that maybe sets up present day Falcon and Bucky, kind of like what Captain America First Avenger did. Serpent Crown, maybe? Been waiting for that little Marvel artifact to rear its ugly head for a while now.

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5 minutes ago, fmaz said:

Have to remember, that we could get some characters back — specifically Black Widow — if they go down the road of Secret Invasion at any point.  For example, THAT could be the twist of the Black Widow solo prequel movie.  It could be her pre-Avengers life, and maybe her entire life UP until we see her being abducted and replaced in a post-credit scene.

In that scenario, much like the way the MCU handled the Infinity War/Gauntet story... “Secret Invasion” would obviously be simply a jumping off point for a very different version of that story that they would tell.  Heck, it might be used ONLY to bring Natasha back... or the post-credit scene of her movie might be shots of various characters in the MCU being taken.  That would actually be pretty cool.

The one thing I know for sure is that whatever they do with the MCU going forward, I’ll plunk down my cash and watch it.

I still remember so many people here (present company included, I assume... I forget LOL)  being up in arms going “Guardians of the Galaxy? There’s so many more interesting movies to make than that! Who wants to see that?”  They’ve earned my trust and faith 1,000 times over by now.

 

 

Problem with that is I know she dies down the road......prequels concerning characters who are dead aren't fun to watch, for me at least.  Im done with RDJ now that they've killed him and done with Cap now that they've aged him....can't go back now..no flashbacks or alternate versions are acceptable. Im more prone to rewatch movies when a major character doesn't die at the end and has a satisfying ending that doesn't seem like it was done just because an actor wanted 'out'.

 Similar to the Penny from timeline 23 in Magicians, can't suspend belief that much.

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