• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Avengers: Endgame SPOILERS
1 1

890 posts in this topic

46 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Wait, what?

I vaguely remember her thinking of herself as a “monster”. My memory is that she viewed herself that way because of the seedy stuff she did as s spy.  Along the lines of the back-and-forth her Clint have about who has more blood on their hands when trying to get the Soul Stone. 

I don’t remember her viewing herself as a “monster” just because she couldn’t have kids. Maybe she couldn’t conceive as a consequence of the bad stuff she had done previously, but don’t remember the lack of kids in and of itself being the reason. 

Granted, it’s been awhile since I last watched the first Avengers movie, and Ultron was a one-and-done for me. So if the line was in those that’s probably why I don’t remember clearly. 

Which film did this dialogue take place in?

I guess we have to accept Joss’s explanation - he wrote it - but if you read their dialogue...

1CED9D23-7FDA-4D77-98CE-352B6250164A.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Chuck Gower said:

I guess we have to accept Joss’s explanation - he wrote it - but if you read their dialogue...

1CED9D23-7FDA-4D77-98CE-352B6250164A.jpeg

I had always interpreted it as she's so ruthless in the task at hand, that she would willingly go to those kind of lengths to complete her training.  Like, that takes a level of devotion to a (murderous) cause.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, ExNihilo said:

I had always interpreted it as she's so ruthless in the task at hand, that she would willingly go to those kind of lengths to complete her training.  Like, that takes a level of devotion to a (murderous) cause.

It was actually the opposite, Natasha purposely tried to fail her training to avoid being sterilized but her commander saw her failure for the deception it was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, ExNihilo said:

Was that expressed in the movies?

That's how I remember it go down in AoU. There was a flashback when she was hypnotized by Scarlet Witch & possibly one when she was explaining her sterilization to Banner. I would have to watch AoU again to be sure.

Edited by chezmtghut
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Number 6 said:

Wait, what?

I vaguely remember her thinking of herself as a “monster”. My memory is that she viewed herself that way because of the seedy stuff she did as s spy.  Along the lines of the back-and-forth her Clint have about who has more blood on their hands when trying to get the Soul Stone. 

I don’t remember her viewing herself as a “monster” just because she couldn’t have kids. Maybe she couldn’t conceive as a consequence of the bad stuff she had done previously, but don’t remember the lack of kids in and of itself being the reason. 

Granted, it’s been awhile since I last watched the first Avengers movie, and Ultron was a one-and-done for me. So if the line was in those that’s probably why I don’t remember clearly. 

Which film did this dialogue take place in?

"Makes everything easier. Even killing." That's why she thinks she's a monster.

Some people (not you) are incapable of understanding certain nuances in dialogue...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As we saw in Endgame, Captain Marvel is a sidekick. Wong has more leadership charisma. lol

The Russo Bros. didn't want a one-dimensional poorly-acted character to slow down the story.

She got what she deserved (minimum screen time) and we got what we deserve (a great finale).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TwoPiece said:

As we saw in Endgame, Captain Marvel is a sidekick. Wong has more leadership charisma. lol

The Russo Bros. didn't want a one-dimensional poorly-acted character to slow down the story.

She got what she deserved (minimum screen time) and we got what we deserve (a great finale).

Poor Captain Marvel only saved Tony Stark and Nebula (and thereby saved the universe), inspired the ragtag Avengers to go get Thanos, singlehandedly destroyed Thanos’ Sanctuary 2 stopping the rain of fire, and prevented Thanos from snapping his fingers again with a cosmic pea knuckle, thus saving the universe again.

Carol Danvers also has three of the big cinematic moments of the movie when she arrives to save Tony and Nebula like a space angel, when she arrives on Earth like a comet from heaven at the heroes’ darkest hour, and when she blasts through the Sanctuary 2 like a missile from hell.

Captain Marvel ( strongest Avenger) > everybody.

Edited by @therealsilvermane
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Poor Captain Marvel only saved Tony Stark and Nebula (and thereby saved the universe), inspired the ragtag Avengers to go get Thanos, singlehandedly destroyed Thanos’ Sanctuary 2 stopping the rain of fire, and prevented Thanos from snapping his fingers again with a cosmic pea knuckle, thus saving the universe again.

Carol Danvers also has three of the big cinematic moments of the movie when she arrives to save Tony and Nebula like a space angel, when she arrives on Earth like a comet from heaven at the heroes’ darkest hour, and when she blasts through the Sanctuary 2 like a missile from hell.

Captain Marvel ( strongest Avenger) > everybody.

"Inspired the ragtag Avengers". Nope. They were already "inspired". All they needed was the intel that Nebula had.

Who almost killed Thanos? Oh, that's right, Scarlet Witch. Not Captain Marvel. Captain Marvel didn't save the universe at all. Only Tony Stark was capable of doing so.

Carol Danvers has literally 1 "big cinematic moment". And that's crashing into Sanctuary II. The 2 "arrivals" in the first 15 minutes of the movie are neither "big" nor "cinematic moments". Very droll.

Captain Marvel isn't stronger than Thor, Hulk, Scarlet Witch, or even the simple human Tony Stark (who saved the universe). Not even close to being "strongest Avenger". She isn't even an Avenger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, chezmtghut said:

That's how I remember it go down in AoU. There was a flashback when she was hypnotized by Scarlet Witch & possibly one when she was explaining her sterilization to Banner. I would have to watch AoU again to be sure.

Age of Ultron. We see a ceremony taking place, and then with Bruce she shares how as part of her graduation she experienced sterilization.

 

 

Edited by Bosco685
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't view anyone as a sidekick in Avengers but as a team just like in GoTG. Everyone in the MCU at some point in time was important to the storyline. 

I find it incredibly arrogant for people to constantly push a fallacy that if you did not like BP, well then it is because you hate black people and if you didn't like CM then well, that's because you hate women.Do people go around saying if you hate Thor Dark World well that is because you hate white men? No. because it's a silly argument and not based on any sort of factual evidence.

No, I didn't like either because they were just ok movies in my opinion. 

If you liked them, grats. We're they wildly successful? Sure. That doesn't make them good movies (*cough" The Last Jedi). All three movies in my opinion road the coattails of other movies/brands so that is why they were successful and a lot of help from a media agenda to push them. Time will tell how these Marvel movies do w/o RDJ and Evans. I personally think it will take a nosedive but they will still be viable. The days of them breaking records are over I think.

The whole situation reminds of the Amy Schumer defense of her awful 2017 Netflix special after she go caught stealing other comedian's jokes. So many people hated it and what was her response? Those people just hate women. No Amy, your special sucked and you are not funny no matter how many time you say the V word and think you are being shocking. 

I choose to look at Endgame as a culmination of all the movies which are one big story and it was great even BP and CM in that regard as they are important to the overall story. Everyone played their part and that is what makes it so good.

 

Edited by ianh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, ianh said:

I don't view anyone as a sidekick in Avengers but as a team just like in GoTG. Everyone in the MCU at some point in time was important to the storyline. 

I find it incredibly arrogant for people to constantly push a fallacy that if you did not like BP, well then it is because you hate black people and if you didn't like CM then well, that's because you hate women.Do people go around saying if you hate Thor Dark World well that is because you hate white men? No. because it's a silly argument and not based on any sort of factual evidence.

No, I didn't like either because they were just ok movies in my opinion. 

If you liked them, grats. We're they wildly successful? Sure. That doesn't make them good movies (*cough" The Last Jedi). All three movies in my opinion road the coattails of other movies/brands so that is why they were successful and a lot of help from a media agenda to push them. Time will tell how these Marvel movies do w/o RDJ and Evans. I personally think it will take a nosedive but they will still be viable. The days of them breaking records are over I think.

The whole situation reminds of the Amy Schumer defense of her awful 2017 Netflix special after she go caught stealing other comedian's jokes. So many people hated it and what was her response? Those people just hate women. No Amy, your special sucked and you are not funny no matter how many time you say the V word and think you are being shocking. 

I choose to look at Endgame as a culmination of all the movies which are one big story and it was great even BP and CM in that regard as they are important to the overall story. Everyone played their part and that is what makes it so good.

:golfclap:

I do like Black Panther, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

Carol Danvers has literally 1 "big cinematic moment". And that's crashing into Sanctuary II. The 2 "arrivals" in the first 15 minutes of the movie are neither "big" nor "cinematic moments". Very droll.

Mmm, when Carol arrives at the Benatar to save Tony, the way the filmmakers portrayed that was pretty cool, and I'd say a big cinematic moment in the movie. Not only was Tony saved, but the visual impact was incredible, with Carol being a metaphor for an angel. 

Her arrival I was referring to was at the end when the Sanctuary 2 was raining fire on everyone, and then the guns point skyward towards a ball of fire hurtling towards the planet aka Carol. That was pretty awesome story wise, and another big visually cinematic moment of the movie. And let's face it, Endgame was in part very much about its cinematic moments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Mmm, when Carol arrives at the Benatar to save Tony, the way the filmmakers portrayed that was pretty cool, and I'd say a big cinematic moment in the movie. Not only was Tony saved, but the visual impact was incredible, with Carol being a metaphor for an angel. 

Her arrival I was referring to was at the end when the Sanctuary 2 was raining fire on everyone, and then the guns point skyward towards a ball of fire hurtling towards the planet aka Carol. That was pretty awesome story wise, and another big visually cinematic moment of the movie. And let's face it, Endgame was in part very much about its cinematic moments.

I agree that it was "cool", but to call such an early and expected scene a "big moment" is vastly overrating it IMO. It was non-impactful for me and I don't see any angel metaphor. Angels "come from the Heavens". Not laterally from space.

You said:

"Carol Danvers also has three of the big cinematic moments of the movie when she arrives to save Tony and Nebula like a space angel, when she arrives on Earth like a comet from heaven at the heroes’ darkest hour, and when she blasts through the Sanctuary 2 like a missile from hell."

Arriving on Earth again to destroy Sanctuary II is 1 scene. You can't claim it as 2...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ianh said:

I find it incredibly arrogant for people to constantly push a fallacy that if you did not like BP, well then it is because you hate black people and if you didn't like CM then well, that's because you hate women.Do people go around saying if you hate Thor Dark World well that is because you hate white men? No. because it's a silly argument and not based on any sort of factual evidence.

No, I didn't like either because they were just ok movies in my opinion. 

If you liked them, grats. We're they wildly successful? Sure. That doesn't make them good movies (*cough" The Last Jedi). All three movies in my opinion road the coattails of other movies/brands so that is why they were successful and a lot of help from a media agenda to push them. Time will tell how these Marvel movies do w/o RDJ and Evans. I personally think it will take a nosedive but they will still be viable. The days of them breaking records are over I think.

The whole situation reminds of the Amy Schumer defense of her awful 2017 Netflix special after she go caught stealing other comedian's jokes. So many people hated it and what was her response? Those people just hate women. No Amy, your special sucked and you are not funny no matter how many time you say the V word and think you are being shocking. 

I choose to look at Endgame as a culmination of all the movies which are one big story and it was great even BP and CM in that regard as they are important to the overall story. Everyone played their part and that is what makes it so good.

 

XXXX [WRONG ANSWER BUZZER SOUND] Sorry ianh, you failed today's hater test. 

If you don't like Thor Dark World, that doesn't mean you have to hate white men. But if you don't like Black Panther or Captain Marvel, the only two MCU movies not starring a white man, it is very possible to not like them because you have an agenda against cultural diversity. And for you to already equate BP and CM in any way with Dark World already makes your own agenda suspect.

Then you mention that BP and CM needed help from a media agenda to push them. And 95% of folks who think the media has an evil agenda against the world I can tell where their politics lie. 

And then you bring in some Amy Schumer story as an example of people who don't think like you crying "you hate women" because you don't like her special, or Captain Marvel to complete the metaphor. Well here's the deal, Captain Marvel had made 1.1 billion worldwide. Some of that is definitely due to Endgame hype, some of it's due to the MCU brand, and a lot of it is because a lot of people loved the movie. I haven't met a single person in real life (I admit I don't know everybody) who didn't think Captain Marvel wasn't at least a good movie. 

I'm glad you enjoyed Endgame and that you were able to stomach EVEN Black Panther and Captain Marvel because they're part of a greater story, but your agenda against the latter two movies because of what they represent stands out like a sore thumb.

 

Edited by @therealsilvermane
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

You said:

"Carol Danvers also has three of the big cinematic moments of the movie when she arrives to save Tony and Nebula like a space angel, when she arrives on Earth like a comet from heaven at the heroes’ darkest hour, and when she blasts through the Sanctuary 2 like a missile from hell."

Arriving on Earth again to destroy Sanctuary II is 1 scene. You can't claim it as 2...

I'm not talking about "scenes", I'm talking about moments. When the guns point upwards towards a light behind the clouds, that was an awesome visual and story moment where people in the theater clapped or whispered "It's Captain Marvel!"

Then when Carol bursts upwards from the exploding Sanctuary 2, more clapping from the audience, as that was another great visual MOMENT. 

There were several great visual moments throughout the entire 3 hour movie, and Carol Danvers had some of the strongest moments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I finally saw this movie tonite (this morning, actually- went to the midnite showing) and really enjoyed it.
I liked the way they wrapped up the Tony Stark / Steve Rogers / Natasha storyline(s).  This reminds me of Avengers #16 in the comics - the "original" Avengers leave and a (mostly) new group takes over.  There were a  lot of angry letters to the editor when that happened, but it ended up working out pretty well.  :smile:
Personally, I think the creators wrapped up this "original" MCU Avengers storyline perfectly.  There was a beginning (Iron Man with the introduction of the "Avengers Initiative"), a middle, and an end (Endgame).  You know, a complete story.

-Just wonderful.  And this prevents what I feel is wrong with these characters in the comics.  There is no end.  It's not really a story any more.  It just goes on and on - repackaging the same accounts over and over again, shocking "deaths" that don't last, retcons upon retcons.  Paradoxically, sometimes great characters can become victims of their own success.  When I (on occasion) read a new Spider-Man comic, it's clear this is not really the same Peter Parker that Ditko & Lee created in 1962.  His story should have ended some time ago, instead of some never-ending status-quo.

The original MCU Avengers line-up ends in a blaze of glory.  And with one of the highest-grossing box offices of all time and topping a record-setting franchise in more ways than one.
"Always leave them wanting more."

-Just perfect.  Bravo Marvel Studios!  I know I couldn't have done any better.  This is what I've been waiting for since I started reading Marvel in 1964, before Marvel adopted "the (never-ending) illusion of change".
I'd bet Stan, Jack, and Steve would be proud.

Edited by Unca Ben
Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

XXXX [WRONG ANSWER BUZZER SOUND] Sorry ianh, you failed today's hater test. 

If you don't like Thor Dark World, that doesn't mean you have to hate white men. But if you don't like Black Panther or Captain Marvel, the only two MCU movies not starring a white man, it is very possible to not like them because you have an agenda against cultural diversity. And for you to already equate BP and CM in any way with Dark World already makes your own agenda suspect.

Then you mention that BP and CM needed help from a media agenda to push them. And 95% of folks who think the media has an evil agenda against the world I can tell where their politics lie. 

And then you bring in some Amy Schumer story as an example of people who don't think like you crying "you hate women" because you don't like her special, or Captain Marvel to complete the metaphor. Well here's the deal, Captain Marvel had made 1.1 billion worldwide. Some of that is definitely due to Endgame hype, some of it's due to the MCU brand, and a lot of it is because a lot of people loved the movie. I haven't met a single person in real life (I admit I don't know everybody) who didn't think Captain Marvel wasn't at least a good movie. 

I'm glad you enjoyed Endgame and that you were able to stomach EVEN Black Panther and Captain Marvel because they're part of a greater story, but your agenda against the latter two movies because of what they represent stands out like a sore thumb.

 

Are you serious about your post? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
1 1