Avengers: Endgame SPOILERS 1 1

[@therealsilvermane]

4 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

 

Good sportsmanship is a universal concept even Thanos understands.

[234wallst]

11 hours ago, comix4fun said:

I asked because their reaction to seeing each other, or at least Ned's reaction, was one of "Oh My God! You're Alive...I thought you were dead all these years". 

 

That was my initial thought as well.  But if think you about, Ned's last interaction with Peter was on the bus with a space ship tearing through New York.  If Ned got snapped out he would have similar reaction just knowing Peter survived that attack.

[@therealsilvermane]

12 hours ago, comix4fun said:

I asked because their reaction to seeing each other, or at least Ned's reaction, was one of "Oh My God! You're Alive...I thought you were dead all these years". But Peter, when talking to Tony said that it was, to him a moment between turning to dust and being alive again. If they both got Thanos'd in Infinity War then their age, and being in HS makes sense. If not, then we can only assume Ned dropped the ball HARD academically.  

 

No, Ned’s reaction upon seeing Peter was more of lingering bewilderment like “wtf just happened?”

[Bosco685]

4 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Good sportsmanship is a universal concept even Thanos understands.

Yes, before he tells Corvus to have the ship fire on his own army and The Avengers at that point Thanos felt like he would be totally fair.

"RAIN FIRE!"

Edited May 5, 2019 by Bosco685

[@therealsilvermane]

5 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Yes, before he tells Corvus to have the ship fire on his own army and The Avengers at that point Thanos felt like he would be totally fair.

"RAIN FIRE!"

Thanos is also a winner. Like the Patriots, if you’re not cheating you’re not trying. 

[rjrjr]

I finally saw the movie last night in the Cine Capri (largest movie screen in AZ). Just a few of my thoughts:

I am not as enamored with these Marvel movies because unfortunately I am too familiar with the source material and do not like all the changes they have made to several characters to adapt them to movies. I have said before I wish I had not spent the past 45 years reading comics and I would probably enjoy these movies more. But, putting aside that, they did a great job of wrapping up arcs for several characters and there was lots to love here. I like Tony Stark’s send off as well as Captain America’s.

Thor in the movie is just so different from the comic and if it wasn’t for the costume and title I would not recognize the character I grew up reading. I have a hard time believing Thor would regret killing a villain like Thanos let alone it impacting him to the point where he just gives up. His character has been the most butchered of all the characters in these movies and this final movie just was more of the same.

Why did Captain Marvel wait so long at the end to destroy Thanos’ ship? It seems like she could have taken the ship down immediately after it started bombarding the ground and we could have avoided a big fight. Along those same lines why did Thanos and his army stand there letting the Avengers and allies assemble?

I like that they actually killed off major characters instead of having them live so another actor ala Jame Bond can carry the mantle. I believe this will just mean we will inevitably get a reboot which might give us a chance to see some of these characters reinterpreted for the movies. I hold out hope I will eventually see the noble Thor I grew up with on the big screen.

Now that the heroes can time travel and have used it successfully a few times, it will be hard to believe they will not use it again in the future when things get dire. Unless Kang or Doctor Doom step in and make the consequences of having done so a negative. This kinda reminds me of when Superman reversed time in the original movie to bring back Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen.

Why did SHIELD not have a bigger presence at the final fight and during the Tony Stark sendoff?

I know the Vision was not created after the time jumping but I hope they find a way to bring the character back. His absence as well as SHIELD’s was noticeable by me.

It wIll be interesting to see where they go now that Tony Stark aka Robert Downey Jr. is gone. That single character has done more to define these movies and not always in a positive way.

[comix4fun]

58 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Thanos is also a winner. Like the Patriots, if you’re not cheating you’re not trying. 

[comix4fun]

3 minutes ago, rjrjr said:

 

Thor in the movie is just so different from the comic and if it wasn’t for the costume and title I would not recognize the character I grew up reading. I have a hard time believing Thor would regret killing a villain like Thanos let alone it impacting him to the point where he just gives up. His character has been the most butchered of all the characters in these movies and this final movie just was more of the same.

 

I think you missed a part...he didn't regret killing Thanos...he regretting not killing him fast enough to prevent him from snapping his fingers in the first place. 

[rjrjr]

 

5 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

I think you missed a part...he didn't regret killing Thanos...he regretting not killing him fast enough to prevent him from snapping his fingers in the first place. 

Why did he give up? He is given a chance to fix things and he was hesitant to take it. But offering him beer motivated him? I do not see Thor, God of Thunder, ever giving up let alone having regrets.

Edited May 5, 2019 by rjrjr

[Bosco685]

3 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

I think you missed a part...he didn't regret killing Thanos...he regretting not killing him fast enough to prevent him from snapping his fingers in the first place. 

Yup. He was suffering the trauma of not having taken action in Infinity War where he could have ended Thanos as was needed. But how would he have known without such an experience in the future to go for the head?

Not that would ease his guilt.

[Sauce Dog]

7 minutes ago, rjrjr said:

 

Why did Captain Marvel wait so long at the end to destroy Thanos’ ship? It seems like she could have taken the ship down immediately after it started bombarding the ground and we could have avoided a big fight. 

 

wut? She didn't wait long at all, she destroyed it the second she arrived back on earth - it was literally the very first thing she did.


My main issue is WHY go back to New York for the chance at only THREE infinitie stones, when they could have just all went to Titan the moment Thanos was tied up with FIVEstones, and had Thor cut his arm off then (That entire battle almost worked if it wasn't for Starlord hesitating and snapping Thanos out of his stupor)

[rjrjr]

12 minutes ago, Sauce Dog said:

wut? She didn't wait long at all, she destroyed it the second she arrived back on earth - it was literally the very first thing she did.


My main issue is WHY go back to New York for the chance at only THREE infinitie stones, when they could have just all went to Titan the moment Thanos was tied up with FIVEstones, and had Thor cut his arm off then (That entire battle almost worked if it wasn't for Starlord hesitating and snapping Thanos out of his stupor)

Come to think of it, Captain Marvel was not with the Avengers when they time jumped, was she? More important things to do than save half the population of the universe?

Good point. Tony Stark should have known how close they came to beating Thanos on Titan.

Edited May 5, 2019 by rjrjr

[Bosco685]

28 minutes ago, Sauce Dog said:

wut? She didn't wait long at all, she destroyed it the second she arrived back on earth - it was literally the very first thing she did.


My main issue is WHY go back to New York for the chance at only THREE infinitie stones, when they could have just all went to Titan the moment Thanos was tied up with FIVEstones, and had Thor cut his arm off then (That entire battle almost worked if it wasn't for Starlord hesitating and snapping Thanos out of his stupor)

 

18 minutes ago, rjrjr said:

Come to think of it, Captain Marvel was not with the Avengers when they time jumped, was she? More important things to do than save half the population of the universe?

Good point. Tony Stark should have known how close they came to beating Thanos on Titan.

There were a few times they could have jumped to a different point.

On 5/4/2019 at 1:34 PM, Bosco685 said:

But then if we are wanting to keep the story details above the depths, why have Cap return all the Infinity Stones to their original timeline points? They could end up being misused by someone else since:

1) Thor: The Dark World - Putting it back into Jane Foster leads to it being extracted leading to the Reality Stone going to The Collector for safekeeping (who has his own plans for it).

2) Guardians of the Galaxy - Peter ends up taking the Power Stone from Morag which is intended for that dealer on Xandar. Now with no Gamora to interfere in this, that Stone can go to anyone. Better they had taken it while in the possession of the Nova Corps.

So there is already a level of depth in taking these back to the point in time they were removed from already.

May as well have taken the Reality Stone from The Collector or the Power Stone from Nova Corps and brought less potential impact later on without a PAST Thanos as the receiver of these Stones. Now, who knows where they landed afterwards?

Edited May 5, 2019 by Bosco685

[Sauce Dog]

1 hour ago, rjrjr said:

Come to think of it, Captain Marvel was not with the Avengers when they time jumped, was she? More important things to do than save half the population of the universe?

Good point. 

She was not. For all their grandstanding about doing things together as a team, they were very quick to put together THE MOST IMPORTANT PLAN EVER and not even try to talk to Marvel :P

I don't think it was about things being more important, but rather logistics - she travels at her own speed, not via jump gates, so whenever she found out about the battle it would have taken time - and it didn't seem like the Avengers even tried to call her before doing the time heist so I assume the only reason she was around for the battle was dumb luck (since obviously Strange or Wong didn't grab her like they did with the rest of the heroes, or else she would have been there on the ground with them)

[Mystafo]

I honestly get the feeling that no one really thought these details through. I'd think that would be some of the first things worked out in the story, a saga this long deserves to have all the facts straight and all the loose ends tied up.

I feel like there wasn't enough of a master plan from the get go and a lot of things got changed or mixed up after the success of phase 1.  Just seems so messy.  These characters, stories and, most of all, the fans deserved better.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Mystafo

[paperheart]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/movies/avengers-endgame-questions-and-answers.html

31 minutes ago, Mystafo said:

I honestly get the feeling that no one really thought these details through. I'd think that would be some of the first things worked out in the story, a saga this long deserves to have all the facts straight and all the loose ends tied up.

I feel like there wasn't enough of a master plan from the get go and a lot of things got changed or mixed up after the success of phase 1.  Just seems so messy.  These characters, stories and, most of all, the fans deserved better.

 

[comix4fun]

2 hours ago, rjrjr said:

Come to think of it, Captain Marvel was not with the Avengers when they time jumped, was she? More important things to do than save half the population of the universe?

 

You may need to take the plot analysis up to 25,000 feet for a second and realize that she didn't fail the population of the universe but , instead, the writers and producer wanted to use the original team as much as possible to save the day and give them their final moment of glory as their arc wraps up instead of using a newer character.

Without the overarching theme of saying goodbye to the original Avengers team you'd have seen something different, using different players no doubt. 

[Mystafo]

Thanks for the link, I read this article before and it did clear up some things for me.

[drotto]

1 hour ago, Sauce Dog said:

She was not. For all their grandstanding about doing things together as a team, they were very quick to put together THE MOST IMPORTANT PLAN EVER and not even try to talk to Marvel :P

I don't think it was about things being more important, but rather logistics - she travels at her own speed, not via jump gates, so whenever she found out about the battle it would have taken time - and it didn't seem like the Avengers even tried to call her before doing the time heist so I assume the only reason she was around for the battle was dumb luck (since obviously Strange or Wong didn't grab her like they did with the rest of the heroes, or else she would have been there on the ground with them)

Honestly, Captain Marvel felt forced into this movie.  Not that she did not have 2 or 3 big moments, but the timing with her and her very limited interactions with basically all the other characters, did feel like an afterthought.  IMO, it lends credence to the idea that the -script was already basically done when Disney decided that she must play a role in Endgame resulting in the minimal rewrites required to get her in.

[TupennyConan]

5 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

You may need to take the plot analysis up to 25,000 feet for a second and realize that she didn't fail the population of the universe but , instead, the writers and producer wanted to use the original team as much as possible to save the day and give them their final moment of glory as their arc wraps up instead of using a newer character.

Without the overarching theme of saying goodbye to the original Avengers team you'd have seen something different, using different players no doubt. 

...and touch upon key moments in their solo-films to emphasize those characters [and weave the films into one].

The first 2/3 of the film may be described as situational -- as in sit-com -- or character driven -- as in a stage play [Eugene O'Neil, to be middlebrow]. 

The beat 'em up at the end works to satisfy the blockbuster -- early summer tent pole -- needs for over-the-top spectacle and 'splosions, CGI. IMO, the 'bad part.'     

The excellent logic on display by the critics here and elsewhere panning the characters' poor time travel choices, castigating plot gaps, and puzzling over the missing Super[wo]man, miss this point of loving the [original 6] characters as they be the characters we've learned them to be from IM1 to now. 

The better criticism is: why the poor casting of Hawkeye and Widow?