What's the true value of love? 3 3

[ThothAmon]

It’s cliche but buy what you like and can afford and hopefully it will be worth more when you go to sell. On the bright side, If past experience is a guide it probably will be. 

[vodou]

41 minutes ago, Timely said:

Otherwise you have dealers trading back and forth with each other hoping a collector will come along and pull the trigger.

You don't say...

[Get Marwood & I]

33 minutes ago, Timely said:

Is there anyone here who would feel good about paying $50,000 for a new Honda when everyone else got theirs for $30,000?

I can sort of see your point Timely, and you seem to be getting some mildly harsh treatment for some reason for making it. For me, the analogy above doesn't really work as OA by it's nature is unique. Each page is different, and will appeal to potential buyers differently. A Honda is a Honda - they're all the same, so no need to overpay (hence my ASM #129 example in my earlier post). But OA is unique, so you can't say you over or under paid on any piece as each will have a unique aspect to it.

You might pay 'more' for a piece than the next guy if it has a particular sentimental meaning to you. 

So at the end of the day, it gets dark, and there is only the rough guide of what comparable pages have sold for to guide you, and your own instinctive knowledge of what you are prepared to pay around that ball park. If it makes you happy, and you could afford it, job done.

[Timely]

Perhaps  it's more akin to buying a copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 for $50,000. You show it to a guy who says it's worth $30,000 because there is a long crease on the back cover. You show it to another guy and he thinks the centerfold is married and says it's only worth $10,000-15,000. 

Now you are upset and start rethinking other buys. 

 

On on the other hand if you show it to others and they like it and feel it's worth $50,000 or more you feel good about yourself, your decision and you go back for more!

In the end, I guess there is no real answer to be had here. I just wish OA was easier to price, but I guess that's just not really possible.

[Get Marwood & I]

27 minutes ago, Timely said:

Perhaps  it's more akin to buying a copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 for $50,000. You show it to a guy who says it's worth $30,000 because there is a long crease on the back cover. You show it to another guy and he thinks the centerfold is married and says it's only worth $10,000-15,000. 

Now you are upset and start rethinking other buys. 

 

On on the other hand if you show it to others and they like it and feel it's worth $50,000 or more you feel good about yourself, your decision and you go back for more!

In the end, I guess there is no real answer to be had here. I just wish OA was easier to price, but I guess that's just not really possible.

The industry is full of these quirks. An AF15 that presents as a 7.0 which has a micro-trimmed back cover edge is worth less than a 3.0 with a 'naturally' torn off piece because of a purple grading label. One looks terrific, the other ugly as an ugly thing. Where's the sense in that? Grading is subjective. OA is subjective. Pricing is subjective. Your gut will tell you if you've done right. 

[Peter L]

I've overpaid for a lot of stuff.  But if I didn't, I wouldn't have the great art that I like.  They never would have sold it or someone else may have bought it.  In my favorite area of collecting, I think there may be less than 5 people who are willing to spend the money as I have in this niche as I've tried to find out who I am bidding against or if I am bidding against myself.  There are some times I believe I was bidding against myself.  There was a much talked about Hertiage auction lot where I was the underbidder.  I was about to win, there was a third call to close the auction, and I someone other than the person I was bidding against jumped in at the last minute.  I had the gut feeling it was the seller or something fishy was going on so I stopped bidding.   It was telling that only me and perhaps the "winner" thought it was worth that much as no one else in the world did.  

A few years ago I saw a splash page on Heritage that I would want but it was way above the average comps.  They seller usually doesn't sell stuff out of his collection but he put this particular splash page up.  It didn't meet the reserve to he took it back.  I approached him last year and he said he sold it for what he called crazy money.  He admitted that the reserve was unrealistic.  If it was just under the reserve that he sold it for I thought that would have been a fair price.  Today I feel the reserve would have been a fair price.  

I doubt I will ever get that piece now because it is not posted anywhere and in a black hole collection.  I probably should have overpaid for it at the time.  But my guess is that there are less than 5 people who would have spent that much money on it and maybe less because it is out of their collecting sweetspot.  The sellability wouldn't have mattered to me as it would have ended up in my collection and I probably would never have sold it.  

So in regards to the original post, most people would say that splash is great, many would want it, but a very few would pay for it.  Just because the friends of the original poster doesn't value the art as much, doesn't mean it is not worth it.  But if he then tried to sell it later, there might not be that many potential buyers at that price point.

[Twanj]

5 hours ago, Timely said:

Perhaps  it's more akin to buying a copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 for $50,000. You show it to a guy who says it's worth $30,000 because there is a long crease on the back cover. You show it to another guy and he thinks the centerfold is married and says it's only worth $10,000-15,000. 

Now you are upset and start rethinking other buys. 

 

On on the other hand if you show it to others and they like it and feel it's worth $50,000 or more you feel good about yourself, your decision and you go back for more!

In the end, I guess there is no real answer to be had here. I just wish OA was easier to price, but I guess that's just not really possible.

The guy who overpays is going to be the only one who gets it (in auctions especially, but some other situations) unless everyone else is sleeping or tapped out.

Later that highest price becomes the new normal & you're acclimatized. "hey, that doesn't seems so bad! I would've paid that much for it." Would you have gone +1 more bid increment, or however much the winner would have battled you? Hard to tell.

There are an infinite number of What Ifs, but it doesn't matter unless a deal is made.

[MIL0S]

I see the original posters point about how at current price points you have to consider the “investment value” of your art purchase, but the problem is that our hobby is so nostalgia driven whereas a typical investment is not. You typically won’t have an emotional attachment to a stock that’s appreciated but barring a personal financial crisis I wouldn’t sell covers I bought years ago for a couple of hundred bucks even though now they’d fetch thousands. And that is why it’s hard to pinpoint value, it just takes two people with an emotional attachment to a piece to result in a ‘crazy’ auction price, but then good luck if you try to sell and recoup your money...

[MrBedrock]

On 4/27/2019 at 9:48 AM, Timely said:

I'm not sure why this thread is not getting the response I was hoping for, perhaps I have not been clear enough. 

I was about to purchase a piece of art for $50,000. My peers said it's worth $10,000 to $30,000. I lost confidence in the piece and did not buy it. Now I am second guessing other pieces I have bought. Did I pay double what the next highest buyer would have paid? I feel like I've made good purchases, but when I spend that kind of money I have to look at it as an investment too. I love every piece I bought from an artistic standpoint, but no one wants to feel the overpaid or got ripped off buying a piece of art. Is there anyone here who would feel good about paying $50,000 for a new Honda when everyone else got theirs for $30,000?

If there is not confidence in a collectible investors tend to look elsewhere. 

Before comic grading began in 2000 most sales were to comic collectors. Grading helped stabilize the industry and confidence increased dramatically since then. I'm not sure OA has that same level of stability, and that's what you need to have if you want an outside investor to spend $50,000 on your collectible. Otherwise you have dealers trading back and forth with each other hoping a collector will come along and pull the trigger.

West, I hope you don't take this response the wrong way...but you are complaining about others' overpricing of art the same way that I complain about you overpricing comics. You have offered me some really beautiful, one of a kind grade Timely comics for such nosebleed prices that I could only laugh. Then, somehow, you managed to move them to someone who - if they paid the price you quoted me - will be buried in them for decades. Most folks price their original art the same way. You may not like the price, but that doesn't mean someone else won't.

[Timely]

8 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

West, I hope you don't take this response the wrong way...but you are complaining about others' overpricing of art the same way that I complain about you overpricing comics. You have offered me some really beautiful, one of a kind grade Timely comics for such nosebleed prices that I could only laugh. Then, somehow, you managed to move them to someone who - if they paid the price you quoted me - will be buried in them for decades. Most folks price their original art the same way. You may not like the price, but that doesn't mean someone else won't.

I'll try not to take it the wrong way. You've quoted me some monster numbers on books you are attached to as well! Nature of the beast I guess.

[MrBedrock]

7 minutes ago, Timely said:

I'll try not to take it the wrong way. You've quoted me some monster numbers on books you are attached to as well! Nature of the beast I guess.

Exactly.

[bluechip]

The thing with OA is that each piece is not only one of a kind in that there was only one made, each piece is also one of a kind in the elements which make it more or less desirable.   If you have nostalgia for a piece because it's an iconic image, or moment in the series, reprinted many times over the years, then chances are there will be plenty of other people who also want your piece when it's time to sell.   If your nostalgia's based on the fact it was the first comic you bought, or it reminds you of a particular point in your life, then it might be worth more to you than to anyone else.  

[The Voord]

On 4/27/2019 at 3:48 PM, Timely said:

 

If there is not confidence in a collectible investors tend to look elsewhere. 

 

The investment angle now figures heavily in today's marketplace for OA . . . but most of us here are collectors, first and foremost.  A lot of us have over-paid for art that has a special connection.  It's not uncommon.  Are you more concerned with the fact that you might have paid well above FMV, rather than being delighted with what you bought?  If you've made good choices, values are likely to eventually catch-up to what you might have over-paid.

Edited April 28, 2019 by The Voord

[batman_fan]

I know I overpaid for every single piece of OA in my collection, some by as much as 2x.  The good thing is I held them to the point where many are worth as much as 20x what I paid for them.  My strategy is to have a very small number of items I want from a content/artist point of view and then wait for the right piece to show up in an auction.  I set my max bid and try to really stay below that level.  My max bid is my best estimate based on what similar pieces have sold for as well as how much I like the piece but recognize I will pay more than what must others will pay in order to win it.  This mean picking up maybe one piece a year although last year I scored 3 Peanuts dailies 

[Dick O.]

On 4/27/2019 at 2:23 AM, gumbydarnit said:

Slight drift here... can someone point me to the comic art values thread, where pecking order of art values are roughly stated. I tried to search for it and couldn't find it.

Here you go:

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/314735-a-level-panel-page-valuations-by-artistrun-thoughtsadditionschanges/?do=findComment&comment=10337471

 

[gumbydarnit]

That's what I was looking for... THANKS!

[Will_K]

On 4/26/2019 at 10:43 AM, Timely said:

How do we combat this craziness?  Is it even possible?  Does this type of "wild west" pricing scare away potential collectors & investors?  I know it's got me worried!

Everyone is biased based on their own taste/appreciation and nostalgia vs the market.

Putting aside the addictive nature of the hobby, in the end this is a hobby.  In general, owning art is also a luxury.  If you want to take a moral stance against pricing that doesn't agree with you, you have no choice but to not buy the art.  Actually, that's a good idea... maybe I should stop buying art..

[bocaratondefense]

Maybe what you offered to the dealer was not worth $35,000 to him.  It's not like you offered $35,000 cash for an item he priced at $50,000.

 

Did the friends that you consulted value your stuff at a solid $35,000?

[exitmusicblue]

What's the true value of love?

[Rick2you2]

8 hours ago, exitmusicblue said:

What's the true value of love?

The cost of alimony.