Rating spec books
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It's the responsibility of conscientious collectors, buyers, sellers, and all interested parties to not buy into the fad that previews constitute "first appearances", including justifying them. And how do we, in 2019, draw these conclusions? We look at how collectors of the time frame being discussed reacted. Collectors in 1991 paid MA #97 no heed whatsoever, recognizing the book as a preview, even when Darkhawk #1 was a smoking hot $20 book....the equivalent of a new $4 comic being worth $80-$100 today, and printed in vastly higher numbers than today's comics. Add to that the fact that MA #97 says, right on the cover, that it is a "PREVIEW", and no one should reasonably be calling it a "first appearance."

There would be little confusion if knowledgeable people didn't support that idea, and instead pointed to the historical reaction to explain why. 

There's nothing wrong with liking these books, collecting them, and even paying a premium for them...but retroactively reassigning them "first appearance" status, especially when the collectors of the day never regarded them as such, especially when everyone involved, from the creators and the publisher on down, never regarded them as such, is what causes and contributes to the confusion. And, in some cases, is more than a touch dishonest, promoted by people who are attempting to convince others to buy their preview "first appearances" at that premium. If we tolerate going down these rabbit holes, then eventually, people can justly say that previews of COVERS showing characters, printed in the pages of other comics, are, in fact, the actual "first appearances." 

Attempting to redefine what does, and what does not, constitute a "first appearance" in comics is not going to end well, especially for those who got duped into it. We need less people being duped, not more.

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13 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

 

MA 97 will end up being referred to as the 1st appearance just from a lack of understanding
comic book 1st appearances.

 

In our echo chamber here, there’s some possibility of that.

I can assure you that at shows, the general collecting population hasn’t taken this view.  The long held view of what is a first appearance still rules the day.   The preview appearances are seen as what they are - cool ancillary items.

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Posted (edited)

A simple solution to the "preview" vs. "first appearance" problem would be to take the definition back to the beginning AND to reflect the actual market.

This "preview" of Action Comics #1 appeared in More Fun Comics #31

67447507_HouseAd-ActionComics1-MoreFunComics31-May1938-fullpage-b-edited.jpg.61c181519958e12304dbfbaa263b5b8c.jpg

... which established a very clear example of a "preview" which COULD be considered the first appearance.

NOW, using that fact, we can see that More Fun Comics #1 most recently sold for $1,195 for CGC 2.5 and $1,076 for CGC 3.5, for an average of $1,136 for an average grade of CGC 3.0.

The most recent sale of CGC 3.0 Action Comics #1 was $498,750.

THEREFORE...

A very clear preview of an upcoming comic/character for the most famous example of all time dictates that GIVEN THE SAME GRADE, the preview book should be 439 times CHEAPER than the actual first appearance, even though the preview occurred earlier.

If anyone claims that a preview should be more valuable than the first appearance divided by 439, they need to first correct the market for More Fun Comics #31 and Action Comics #1, then get back to us with updated numbers. 

:foryou:

This will be called the "More Fun 31 Rule" or just "Rule 31" (even though More Fun 31 is more fun to say).  Anyone proclaiming the importance/value/legitimacy of preview books/ads/articles/napkins will only need to show how their situation is more important than More Fun 31. :cloud9:

Edited by valiantman

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1 hour ago, valiantman said:

A simple solution to the "preview" vs. "first appearance" problem would be to take the definition back to the beginning AND to reflect the actual market.

This "preview" of Action Comics #1 appeared in More Fun Comics #31

67447507_HouseAd-ActionComics1-MoreFunComics31-May1938-fullpage-b-edited.jpg.61c181519958e12304dbfbaa263b5b8c.jpg

... which established a very clear example of a "preview" which COULD be considered the first appearance.

NOW, using that fact, we can see that More Fun Comics #1 most recently sold for $1,195 for CGC 2.5 and $1,076 for CGC 3.5, for an average of $1,136 for an average grade of CGC 3.0.

The most recent sale of CGC 3.0 Action Comics #1 was $498,750.

THEREFORE...

A very clear preview of an upcoming comic/character for the most famous example of all time dictates that GIVEN THE SAME GRADE, the preview book should be 439 times CHEAPER than the actual first appearance, even though the preview occurred earlier.

If anyone claims that a preview should be more valuable than the first appearance divided by 439, they need to first correct the market for More Fun Comics #31 and Action Comics #1, then get back to us with updated numbers. 

:foryou:

This will be called the "More Fun 31 Rule" or just "Rule 31" (even though More Fun 31 is more fun to say).  Anyone proclaiming the importance/value/legitimacy of preview books/ads/articles/napkins will only need to show how their situation is more important than More Fun 31. :cloud9:

But it's in black and white! That doesn't count!

(Sorry, just amused by the argument about Spidey's black and white vs black and red costume over in that other thread)

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4 hours ago, valiantman said:

A simple solution to the "preview" vs. "first appearance" problem would be to take the definition back to the beginning AND to reflect the actual market.

This "preview" of Action Comics #1 appeared in More Fun Comics #31

67447507_HouseAd-ActionComics1-MoreFunComics31-May1938-fullpage-b-edited.jpg.61c181519958e12304dbfbaa263b5b8c.jpg

... which established a very clear example of a "preview" which COULD be considered the first appearance.

NOW, using that fact, we can see that More Fun Comics #1 most recently sold for $1,195 for CGC 2.5 and $1,076 for CGC 3.5, for an average of $1,136 for an average grade of CGC 3.0.

The most recent sale of CGC 3.0 Action Comics #1 was $498,750.

THEREFORE...

A very clear preview of an upcoming comic/character for the most famous example of all time dictates that GIVEN THE SAME GRADE, the preview book should be 439 times CHEAPER than the actual first appearance, even though the preview occurred earlier.

If anyone claims that a preview should be more valuable than the first appearance divided by 439, they need to first correct the market for More Fun Comics #31 and Action Comics #1, then get back to us with updated numbers. 

:foryou:

This will be called the "More Fun 31 Rule" or just "Rule 31" (even though More Fun 31 is more fun to say).  Anyone proclaiming the importance/value/legitimacy of preview books/ads/articles/napkins will only need to show how their situation is more important than More Fun 31. :cloud9:

Yes BUT there is a bump to More Fun 31 relative to other More Funs around it. Just as long as your rule reflects that I'm good with it.

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I was following this well-thought out thread intently.

I'll mourn its untimely demise.

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17 minutes ago, camera73 said:

I was following this well-thought out thread intently.

I'll mourn its untimely demise.

I've got more that I'll list when I get time

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From the list, the low value for Darth Vader #3 is the one that surprises me.  

The character is really fun.  The surrounding cast around her has made it one of my favorite mainstream books. 

And yet I don't think many people really care about the book or character.  

She would be great in a movie.  

On a different, X-men 128 and 129 should be on this list. 

Patrick

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Wolverinex said:

 

love this thread.  No Wudy nonsense @comics4all

@Wolverinex WUDY!!! 

Is Bite Koin Swampi ever coming back? 

Edited by comics4all

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Stormwatch #37, Planetary #1, Transmetropolitan #1 are classics 1st apps that everyone should own - in 9.8, it's hard.

Been after Stormwatch for 5 yrs now...no joy. Luckily got the other 2

 

I'd like to throw in Alias #1 as a cheap pick-up now.

I loved Jessica Jones (I'm in a minority I know!) but it was a $500 book in 9.8 more than once, and is sold for as low as $105 this year (Blue 9.8) - I think there may be a rise if the series gained some free-to-air exposure down the track. Good time to buy if you are a fan (yes I bought one for more than $105! - it's a keeper as I loved the show.)

Any of the first 3 books in 9.8 are a great buy.

Good Luck with Stormwatch - only 4 9.8's out there (I think boardies own all 4)

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Oh, and absolutely no chance of making any money off this book - but read it

 

Daytripper

1 x 8.5 and 1 x 9.8 (MINE!) on census.

A great series, which with some love would make a wonderful mini-series on HBO or similar. 

Only book to make me laugh out loud and sob like a baby (for a while too)

Wonderful Book, deserves some love.

791323501_Daytripper19.8.thumb.JPG.d3da8034f21128490cba98cf318bbb60.JPG

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Very cool thread.

I don't have the spec-experience to rate these for future developments, but many of the books previously posted are on my "be on the look-out" list, as well as these:

Army of Darkness 1: 1st Ash (copper?)
ASM 365: 1st Spider-Man 2099
ASM 654: 1st Flash Thompson Venom,  
Avenging Spider-Man 9: 1st Carol Danvers as Capt. Marvel,  
Bat 635: 1st Jason Todd as Red Hood,
Bat 570: 2nd (?) Harley in continuity
Batman Sword of Azrael 1: 1st Azrael
Daredevil 9: 1st Maya Lopez (Echo)
Darth Maul Son of Dathomir 1: Clone Wars legacy
The Goon 1 (Avatar Press): 1st Goon
The Goon 1 (Albatross): 2nd Series
The Goon 1 (Dark Horse): 3rd Series
Hulk 92: 1st Planet Hulk
Invincible Iron-Man 9: 1st Riri
Mouse Guard Belly of The Beast 1: VHTF
Star Wars Tag & Bink 2: 1st Darth Plagueis
Paper Girls 1: 1st PGs
What If 105: 1st Spider-Girl
Wolverine 66: Old Man Logan (cooling or holding?)
Wonder Woman 72: Classic Bolland cover
Web of Spider-Man 118: 1st Ben Reilly as Scarlet Spider

 

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On 5/3/2019 at 9:09 PM, darkstar said:

Death has significant appearances in Captain Atom #42, Books of Magic #4, and an Ambush Bug special prior to her encounter with Luthor in Action Comics #893 and #894.

oh look, free money from two months ago.

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