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CGC needs to modify its stance on Color Touch
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350 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, Badger said:

Harumph, I say!:sumo:

Nothing wrong with a good old fashioned harumph! :headbang:

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

I would actually.:foryou:

(thumbsu

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7 minutes ago, Badger said:

You are right; things do change. I was, and am, a strong supporter of the change on tape use as well as condemning  the use of moving spine damage to the back cover using the same techniques used to remove spine roll. Both of these examples allowed people to game the CGC grading system for potential out-sized profits. If someone started a thread advocating either of these techniques for blue label treatment I believe the majority of board users would say, "Ridiculous!"

Yep, I may be one of them. I think the problem may not have a solution.

My final summary on why I chipped in:

  1. PLODs destroy value. A book with a small amount of CT get's one (see embedded Hulk), and a book that's 50% new material gets one. Seems unjust 9.8.jpg.8ce6dadb9c1cb8e9c0c263c3923deb92.jpg
  2. The huge discrepancy in prices for PLOD vs Blue is so enormous, that people now are happy to deface books

 

Hence Black Adams point, that maybe...

On 4/29/2019 at 7:06 PM, Black_Adam said:

...PLODs should be reserved for comics that have been truly restored.

 

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5 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Yep, I may be one of them. I think the problem may not have a solution.

My final summary on why I chipped in:

  1. PLODs destroy value. A book with a small amount of CT get's one (see embedded Hulk), and a book that's 50% new material gets one. Seems unjust 9.8.jpg.8ce6dadb9c1cb8e9c0c263c3923deb92.jpg
  2. The huge discrepancy in prices for PLOD vs Blue is so enormous, that people now are happy to deface books

 

Hence Black Adams point, that maybe...

 

Using your Hulk example:  How much do you downgrade for the bleed through?(shrug)

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Aside from just market education the only thing I can think of to fix this would be adding a secondary grade following the PLOD grade on the label.

So for example on that PLOD JIM 83. Maybe an App 6.0 PLOD / original integrity grade (OIG) of 3.5

Edited by Rip
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13 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Using your Hulk example:  How much do you downgrade for the bleed through?(shrug)

Tree fiddy

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2 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

:takeit:

It's yours! Now, stop mucking about or I'll undo your account merge (tsk)

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23 minutes ago, Rip said:

Aside from just market education the only thing I can think of to fix this would be adding a secondary grade following the PLOD grade on the label.

So for example on that PLOD JIM 83. Maybe an App 6.0 PLOD / original integrity grade (OIG) of 3.5

I've always wondered why they don't do something like this.They could even hedge their language by using Estimated Original Integrity Grade or some such.  Then people could look at a PLOD and know that the 9.4 they are looking at used to be a 1.5 before leaf casting or the 8.5 used to be a 7.5 before color touch. I think this would help a lot on pricing uncommon books.

Silver and later are too common for this notation to be a huge help. I think the people who are willing to buy a color touched Silver book do so because the cost savings is so drastic. Level that out and you might find the market for color touch shrinking with prices returning close to the same level.hm

 

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4 hours ago, Rip said:

An interesting note, as I'm sure some know color touch CAN get a blue label is some instances "very minor amount of color touch on cover"  "very minor amount of glue" etc.

But anyway maybe with a little education plus more before and after shots, buyers might think twice about color scraping off big chucks and say, "Hey maybe the book was better before".

Books with a small amount of color touch seem to be one of the better bang-for-the-bucks in this hobby today.

I never understood this. Why is this only allowed in GA? I've never seen a SA or BA book with these designations that weren't purple. Does anyone have an example?

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Apparent/Actual, or Apparent/Unrestored, or Apparent/Estimate without restoration

Problem solved. Well, at least for the market, not CGC. ;)

There are some misunderstandings as to what Black_Adam has proposed.

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On 4/29/2019 at 2:06 PM, Black_Adam said:

I think it's time the same approach was considered for color touch (and tear seals).

Color touch and tear seals are different, they actually "restore" a book in the sense of the word.

Restore- "return (someone or something) to a former condition, place, or position."

Tape isn't restoration because the comic never had tape on it in the first place. The tape is a straight up addition. Color touch however is an addition that makes up for the absence of ink, you aren't just adding a defect you are replacing what is now faded, or broken ink. The comic is being "return[ed] to a former condition." Which is not the case with tape. Color touch is restoration, and should always be considered that. I am against a JIM 83 going from a 6.0 to a 3.0 and the destruction of its presentableness as well, however I'm more against restoring it in the first place. The issue here isn't, "stop grading minor amounts of color touch as restored." Its, "stop restoring comics (unless necessary ie. 1.0/0.5s)." Comics wouldn't need to be defaced if they weren't restored in the first place, I wouldn't doubt that JIM was 4.5-4.0 before the resto.

Maybe we give it a Conserved grade. But a blue label, God no.

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If difference in value is the real problem. Its buyers to blame. One ought not to pay the same price for a majorly restored book (ie. pieces added, major color touch, spine reinforcement, leaf casting) as a minimally restored book (ie. minor color touch).

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1 hour ago, bb8 said:

I never understood this. Why is this only allowed in GA? I've never seen a SA or BA book with these designations that weren't purple. Does anyone have an example?

This has been discussed for a while. 

Really if the touch is so minor and it did little to actually change the grade,...in those cases the book is allow to get the blue label.

Maybe it was John Snyder's idea :devil:

Edited by Rip
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