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CGC needs to modify its stance on Color Touch
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350 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Apparent/Actual, or Apparent/Unrestored, or Apparent/Estimate without restoration

Problem solved. Well, at least for the market, not CGC. ;)

There are some misunderstandings as to what Black_Adam has proposed.

Maybe.... but think of all the people that would resub the older PLOD books to get the new grade. :grin: 

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I for one don't like seeing a Golden age book with color touch or glue on the spine in a blue label. I thought I heard that CGC did this to lure out some of the bigger golden age collectors to use their service full well knowing the books had a little "extra" going on. I for one think CGC is well enough established now they shouldn't be allowing this at all anymore.

Or if they allow this for the Golden age they need to allow it though the other ages. An even playing field Golden age should not be held to different standards then silver, bronze or even copper when it comes to restoration.

 

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1 hour ago, Rip said:

This has been discussed for a while. 

Really if the touch is so minor and it did little to actually change the grade,...in those cases the book is allow to get the blue label.

Maybe it was John Snyder's idea :devil:

But my question is does this only apply to GA books (the only blue label books with the ‘very minor’ designation)? Has anyone seen a SA/BA/MA book to get a blue label with ct or glue?

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14 minutes ago, bb8 said:

But my question is does this only apply to GA books (the only blue label books with the ‘very minor’ designation)? Has anyone seen a SA/BA/MA book to get a blue label with ct or glue?

Golden Age Only Period.  (Aside from errors)

Years ago I believe SB came on the boards and explained it was just due to the acceptance in the hobby and only when the grade would have had no apparent improvement anyway. 

I mentioned Snyder because he was known to mess with quite a few high quality GA books back in the day. Some have suggested this acceptance was due to some of his practices.

Edited by Rip
EDIT I've seen some error labels
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4 hours ago, Badger said:
4 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I wouldn't say it was ridiculous, that's a bit strong, unless you're stating it in jest or with your tongue in your cheek. Which I suspect you are not? The thread has a mix of views, all with reasonable rationales to support them. It's not a clear cut thing, which makes it interesting. If it was a clear cut thing, everyone would agree and the topic would end quickly. I can see merits in both sides of the argument. Your point about encouraging CT by giving it a Blue label is a good one and makes sense to me. Ultimately, someone has to make a decision. Leave it as is, or change it. Things do change, so the debate is worth having. It's been had before, ad nauseum probably. But things need regular temperature checks as things can and often do change. I do not personally think that a Blue label with CT noted is the end of the world. I think that would have more pluses than minuses. But others of course may disagree and they may indeed be in the majority. 

You are right; things do change. I was, and am, a strong supporter of the change on tape use as well as condemning  the use of moving spine damage to the back cover using the same techniques used to remove spine roll. Both of these examples allowed people to game the CGC grading system for potential out-sized profits. If someone started a thread advocating either of these techniques for blue label treatment I believe the majority of board users would say, "Ridiculous!"

In my eyes, this discussion is no different. Its talking about gaming the CGC grading system to increase profits by applying a largely unaccepted treatment.  Harumph, I say!:sumo:

And this was the reaction that got me out of the discussion years ago because people started vilifying me personally rather than having a discussion about the topic.

The discussion really has nothing to do with profits from anyone in this thread.

I've had color touch removed from maybe 3 books every in 20 years. Maybe 4 - I can't remember and I doubt I'd start color touching books if the rules changed. I don't need to as it's not my business model.

The discussion has everything to do with logic and reason and you may very well have less scraped covers if the books were all graded with the same color label and just the amount of color touch clearly notated on the label for everyone to see.

It only sounds ridiculous to some because

a) our hobby is a very sensitive one. People get greatly emotional about things in the hobby unlike other hobbies.

b) we've already spent 20 years with a blue / purple label system

If the system started with just a blue label, many people would likely be thinking the opposite: that introducing a purple label after 20 years is ridiculous.

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As a few other people reasoned when we had this discussion years ago, out there in the real world things are notated with words. Clear, delineated words. Words are sufficient to convey anything you want to convey.

Going to 'dumbed down' systems always leaves larger gaps in communication and the coarse, dumbed down system of a different label color has left such a large communication gap that those who 'understand' the lingo better than others can exploit it.

Long story short, if you want to stop scraping of books going to more words and more information and levelling the playing field of those scraping the books is the best way to do it.

It's really the only way to do it, short of teaching everyone how to judge and see resto individually.

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And let me just finish that this is not me pushing for change. I'm indifferent.

But if we're going to have the discussion, more info is always better than less.

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4 hours ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Mandatory encapsulation  for all comics!!!  ^^

I was just typing out how annoying you were in the Beyonder thread and erased it because I didn't want to hurt your feelings.

But I'll just let you know here that I erased it and regret it. lol

:baiting:

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3 hours ago, Rip said:

Aside from just market education the only thing I can think of to fix this would be adding a secondary grade following the PLOD grade on the label.

So for example on that PLOD JIM 83. Maybe an App 6.0 PLOD / original integrity grade (OIG) of 3.5

I have for YEARS been suggesting duel grades for not only restored / OIG grade (as you put it) but also for Green qualified / universal

More info is always better.

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5 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I was just typing out how annoying you were in the Beyonder thread and erased it because I didn't want to hurt your feelings.

But I'll just let you know here that I erased it and regret it. lol

:baiting:

Once upon a time a thread like this would have made my head explode.

 

But now I’m just....

:banana:

Edited by THE_BEYONDER
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3 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Once upon a time a thread like this would have made my head explode.

 

But now I’m just....

:banana:

I would rate this one star if I could like back in the day. 

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8 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I have for YEARS been suggesting duel grades for not only restored / OIG grade (as you put it) but also for Green qualified / universal

More info is always better.

I'll ignore your previous diatribe since I think previous experience has left you frustrated and not really angry at me.:foryou:

Besides, as I stated previously :baiting:, I agree, a label that shows the grade with the restoration as well as one that estimates what the grade was before restoration would be great! If you were the first to suggest it then you are a genius, Roy!

 

A villainous genius but a genius none the less! :) 

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1 minute ago, Badger said:

I'll ignore your previous diatribe since I think previous experience has left you frustrated and not really angry at me.:foryou:

Yeah, it was more of a negative feeling about the discussion and not anger with you.

:foryou:

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

If you were the first to suggest it then you are a genius, Roy! 

Well, I don't know if I was the first but it just seems logical to me. But I'll accept your generous compliment. :blush:

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When CGC finally institutes the long necessary and long awaited 9.7, 9.5, 9.3, and 9.1 grades, I'll believe they would consider restoration label reform seriously.

When 9.8s sell for $1500, and 9.6s sell for $150, there is obviously a need for the grade "in between."

Long, long, long overdue.

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8 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

When CGC finally institutes the long necessary and long awaited 9.7, 9.5, 9.3, and 9.1 grades, I'll believe they would consider restoration label reform seriously.

When 9.8s sell for $1500, and 9.6s sell for $150, there is obviously a need for the grade "in between."

Long, long, long overdue.

I remember that was one of the first questions I had for SB back in the day. Another thing long overdue. I'm with ya 3000!

Edited by Rip
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46 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

When CGC finally institutes the long necessary and long awaited 9.7, 9.5, 9.3, and 9.1 grades, I'll believe they would consider restoration label reform seriously.

When 9.8s sell for $1500, and 9.6s sell for $150, there is obviously a need for the grade "in between."

Long, long, long overdue.

I can't tell if you are joking or not.

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