CGC needs to modify its stance on Color Touch
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CBCS has blue labels for their restored comics and I hate it. In a big auction when stuff is ending in rapid fire if I see purple that makes me take a second to actually see what was done and decide if I still want to bid. 

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1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

That was my point above.  Why is it that when I intentionally remove a piece of a comic, it's restoration and a 'negative' action, but when CGC does it that's a positive action that turns a PLOD to a Blue? 

And both result in damage done to the comic with the intent to deceive. Trimming is damage done with the intent to mimic a higher grade appearance. Scraping CT does the same, only with the intent to mimic an unrestored (or never restored) comic. 

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2 minutes ago, october said:

And both result in damage done to the comic with the intent to deceive. Trimming is damage done with the intent to mimic a higher grade appearance. Scraping CT does the same, only with the intent to mimic an unrestored (or never restored) comic. 

So the removal of colour touch should get a PLOD! :D

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4 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

So the removal of colour touch should get a PLOD! :D

Other grading companies in other hobbies just avoid this whole thing by assigning an "authentic" label and no grade to trimmed, altered or otherwise monkeyed with items. That would cover trimming, resto, resto removal, etc. 

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5 minutes ago, october said:

Other grading companies in other hobbies just avoid this whole thing by assigning an "authentic" label and no grade to trimmed, altered or otherwise monkeyed with items. That would cover trimming, resto, resto removal, etc. 

And possibly rightly so. Whichever way you look at it, there's a self serving element to CGCs approach here. They're inviting collectors to pay them to remove pieces of their comics when their own process punishes anyone else who does the same. 

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4 minutes ago, Rip said:

October has a point here. It's really sad to see these scraped up books damaged far more than if the book was left alone.

Black Adam makes it in his opening post:

2 hours ago, Black_Adam said:

CGC currently has a restoration removal program allowing for the removal of both. But the removal technique is often simply to scrape off or cut away the offending area of the cover (I recently saw a CGC 6.0 JIM 83 that was butchered down to a 3.0) resulting in a lot of otherwise well-presenting covers being permanently defaced.

I don't think anyone likes to see a comic damaged, for whatever reason. So I'm with Black Adam and support his approach. CGCs resto removal programme would take a hit if they supported it I suspect. So there you have it. 

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If I were to pretend this was still a non CGC or even C*CS world and bid big on a book being sold I have been after for a long time without mention of work done to it in the listing and won, I think my reaction to getting it and finding out it was exactly as it 'appeared' to be as opposed to getting it and upon further inspection found it to be manipulated even slightly ( even in a case where the seller swears he/she was unaware themselves and could not / did not detect the 'work' -hence no intended deception) would be worlds apart. 

....don't know if I'm even in the neighborhood of what's being asked to be considered here :D

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Posted (edited)

Just ask @427Impaler what he thought of the JIM 85 that was "fixed" for him. It went from being an attractive 6.0 with a small amount of CT on one corner (I believe comics in this grade are allowed to have pen marks on the cover) to a hideous 3.0

IMG_1711.jpg

Edited by Black_Adam
Found a pic

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2 minutes ago, newshane said:

Sorry, color touch IS restoration and should always be treated as such. 

Is the removal of colour touch restoration?

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Just now, Get Marwood & I said:

Is the removal of colour touch restoration?

Yes. 

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2 minutes ago, newshane said:

Don't you love paradox? lol 

 

CGC do. But they call it an 'income stream.'

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3 minutes ago, Black_Adam said:

I don't want to create the impression I'm a fan of color touch - I just feel as if the cure has become worse than the disease.

Color touch, by nature, is pretty catastrophic, much like trimming. As you noted, the removal of color touch can sometimes be even worse! 

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Posted (edited)

So under this proposal would the JIM shown above get a blue label 5.0 (maybe what the comic was before the color touch) or a 3.0 (what they estimate the grade would be if the color touch was removed)?  And how are they to estimate either way?

Edited by thunsicker

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8 minutes ago, thunsicker said:

So under this proposal would the JIM shown above get a blue label 5.0 (maybe what the comic was before the color touch) or a 3.0 (what they estimate the grade would be if the color touch was removed)?  And how are they to estimate either way?

I propose the graders when making a list of flaws on the comic (I'm assuming that is how they determine a grade) list the color-breaking crease as if it wasn't masked by CT and the black felt used for the CT as two flaws. For me this would lower the grade to a Blue 5.0 vs the PLOD 6.0 with a clear note on the label indicating the color touch (as they do with tape).

If this was already a 3.0 with CT I wouldn't deduct the grade at all for the crease or the pen mark (both common in this grade). I would just note the color touch on the label.

 

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Another example is this 9.8 PLOD. Instead of giving it an (albeit Purple) 9.8 grade I would treat it as if the color break and the black pen mark were both noted flaws - driving this down into the Blue 8.5 - 9.0 range (with the color touch notation remaining on the label). Just as punishing as the Purple label but hopefully eliminating any temptation to mutilate this otherwise beautiful comic in an attempt to remove the PLOD stigma now associated with it.

Item #47541392 Front Cover: Incredible Hulk #158 CGC 9.8

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Posted (edited)

Before and after scans of color touch removal:

Spoiler

1296629-F001.thumb.jpg.c7210e364b0de39f8
1298620-F001.thumb.jpg.7254811b3121c7e5f

 

Edited by BlowUpTheMoon

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