CGC Kirby Signature Question
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Posted (edited)

I submitted a Mister Miracle 1 to CGC for grading yesterday at the Fan Expo in Dallas. The first page of the book has Jack Kirby’s signature at the bottom. I’m assuming it will get a blue label with a note stating “Jack Kirby written in pen on the bottom of the first page.” My question is do I need to inform CGC the signature is there to 1) let them know it’s there (although I’m sure they will see it) and 2) let them know who’s signature it is (although it’s pretty obvious.) I’m aware it won’t get a yellow label, just wasn’t sure if I should have made a note about the signature since I’d like it mentioned on the label or will they make note of it without me requesting? Thanks 

Edited by loganparker

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Most likely it will receive the "Jack Kirby written on 1st page" notation on the label... 

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Name written on first page would be more accurate.

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6 minutes ago, Roger Wilco said:

+1

They should label it as such to avoid a loophole some try to exploit.

 

 

It's my understanding that just because CGC identifies a signature that's written on the interior of a book, it doesn't necessarily mean that signature is genuine. That's why they don't write it like this: "Signed on 1st page by Jack Kirby." They're not authenticating the signature; they're just letting it be known that someone signed Kirby's name on the first page...  

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3 minutes ago, Roger Wilco said:

Since CGC doesn't authenticate signatures I don't think they should be guessing. Plus that's just what the specs/flippers/con men want, Kirby's name on the label.

(shrug)

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18 hours ago, loganparker said:

I submitted a Mister Miracle 1 to CGC for grading yesterday at the Fan Expo in Dallas. The first page of the book has Jack Kirby’s signature at the bottom. I’m assuming it will get a blue label with a note stating “Jack Kirby written in pen on the bottom of the first page.” My question is do I need to inform CGC the signature is there to 1) let them know it’s there (although I’m sure they will see it) and 2) let them know who’s signature it is (although it’s pretty obvious.) I’m aware it won’t get a yellow label, just wasn’t sure if I should have made a note about the signature since I’d like it mentioned on the label or will they make note of it without me requesting? Thanks 

Do you have an image of the signature that you can share with us?

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14 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Do you have an image of the signature that you can share with us?

I don’t. I bought the book off the boards here some time back and it wasn’t advertised or sold to me as a “Kirby” signed book. I actually didn’t even notice the signature until a few months ago when I was preparing it to submit to CGC. I really don’t collect signed books and don’t ever plan on parting with it but thought it would be nice to have the documentation on the label so I don’t forget. I’ll probably reach out to Brittani at CGC and see what she suggests. If all else fail I’ll just stick a post it note on the holder so I don’t forget xD!

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5 hours ago, shadroch said:

Name written on first page would be more accurate.

No, it would be more vague.  "Jack Kirby" is indeed written on the first page.  The open question is, "by whom?"

I have submitted such books to CGC in the past.  Before I do, I snap a couple of pics of the signature before it is hidden forever.  If I ever sell the books, I would post a pic not only of the front and back covers, and the CGC label, but also the signature on the inside.  Let the buyer judge for himself.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, loganparker said:

I don’t. I bought the book off the boards here some time back and it wasn’t advertised or sold to me as a “Kirby” signed book. I actually didn’t even notice the signature until a few months ago when I was preparing it to submit to CGC. I really don’t collect signed books and don’t ever plan on parting with it but thought it would be nice to have the documentation on the label so I don’t forget. I’ll probably reach out to Brittani at CGC and see what she suggests. If all else fail I’ll just stick a post it note on the holder so I don’t forget xD!

Unfortunate. Those of us here familiar with Kirby's track could have lent an educated opinion on it's authenticity.

If it is authentic, it would add a good deal of value and a substantial amount of interest to the book, for you and ultimately if and when you one day sell. Though CGC does not authenticate pre-existing signatures, that is, signatures that are not CGC witnessed, there are steps that you can take prior to sending to CGC for grading/slabbing.

Sadly, once the book is sealed, any existing internal signatures are hidden from view so prior to CGC submission, you could submit the comic for authentication of the signature to JSA or any one of other reputable authentication companies for a Kirby COA, if they deem it authentic. Now, you'll have a certificate with the picture of your Kirby signature on it and verification of authenticity. Once obtained, then the book can be submitted to CGC for grading, and although a COA will not affect CGC's policy concerning calling this anything but, "Jack Kirby written on splash page", and CGC will not go by JSA's COA, I think you can have that certificate slabbed along with the book, overlaying the back cover (might be wrong, but worth checking into).

At any rate, going that route, you will have your comic slabbed with a Universal label (not a yellow one), but also the COA concerning the Kirby's authenticity, with the picture of the signature (now hidden) will be visible.

Edited by James J Johnson

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15 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

I think you can have that certificate slabbed along with the book

No.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

No.

I could have sworn I remember seeing books CGC slabbed with certificates. Sometimes a certificate that was issued by the publisher with the book, "This is number 076 of 250, etc., etc.". No? Never? Different company?

Might have been instances of a separate holder (board and bag) stored inside the CGC slab bag along with the slab.

Edited by James J Johnson

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1 hour ago, CardiacKid1 said:

No, it would be more vague.  "Jack Kirby" is indeed written on the first page.  The open question is, "by whom?"

I have submitted such books to CGC in the past.  Before I do, I snap a couple of pics of the signature before it is hidden forever.  If I ever sell the books, I would post a pic not only of the front and back covers, and the CGC label, but also the signature on the inside.  Let the buyer judge for himself.

Correct. The words "Jack Kirby" can be noted, without the implication of authenticity that it was signed by THAT "Jack Kirby." There is certainly a fuzzy area in the whole "name written on interior page" notation, but many, many collectors...and many of those who work at CGC...recognize creator signatures, and can, in their own discretion, note that "name." It doesn't authenticate it. It just states what is there. If the words "Stan Lee" were written by Fred down the street, it would almost certainly get the anonymous "name written on first page" notation.

 

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As I recall, one of the reasons CGC decided to put the assigned name on the label was to help sell the book. I find it somewhat ironic that the very thing that helps sell a book can also encourage more nefarious behavior...

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3 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Correct. The words "Jack Kirby" can be noted, without the implication of authenticity that it was signed by THAT "Jack Kirby." There is certainly a fuzzy area in the whole "name written on interior page" notation, but many, many collectors...and many of those who work at CGC...recognize creator signatures, and can, in their own discretion, note that "name." It doesn't authenticate it. It just states what is there. If the words "Stan Lee" were written by Fred down the street, it would almost certainly get the anonymous "name written on first page" notation.

 

+1   Though it's not the company policy to authenticate unwitnessed signatures, I'm sure the CGC graders have seen as many legitimate Lee and Kirby signatures as anyone, enough to have a fairly good idea with a high rate of being right, whether they're looking at the real McCoy or not.

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3 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

+1   Though it's not the company policy to authenticate unwitnessed signatures, I'm sure the CGC graders have seen as many legitimate Lee and Kirby signatures as anyone, enough to have a fairly good idea with a high rate of being right, whether they're looking at the real McCoy or not.

(thumbsu

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Thank you all for the insight. I feel a little silly now not having taken a pic of the signature. I’ll reach out to CGC and see if anything can be done at this point to get the notation on the label. Otherwise I’ll either keep it sealed with a note to myself or maybe crack it and keep it raw depending on the grade. Thanks again all!

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On 5/5/2019 at 7:09 AM, The Lions Den said:

Most likely it will receive the "Jack Kirby written on 1st page" notation on the label... 

This.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/5/2019 at 7:09 AM, The Lions Den said:

Most likely it will receive the "Jack Kirby written on 1st page" notation on the label... 

Not necessarily. The following is my book. I had this signed back in 2001 on the bottom of the first page by Andy and Adam Kubert. Those are the "2 names written on first page in marker" listed on the label. (I wanted Joe as well but turns out he wasn't there on Sunday) 
In 2009, when I heard that all three Kuberts were going to be at a con in NY, I had a boardie faciliate all three sigs for me.

Of course, consistency is sometimes not CGC's strong suit so who knows how it will be shown on the label of the OPs book.

 

2302132127121.jpg

Edited by Jeffro.

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On 5/5/2019 at 4:09 AM, The Lions Den said:

Most likely it will receive the "Jack Kirby written on 1st page" notation on the label... 

Not necessarily. For awhile, CGC was putting that book in a blue label with the note on the label. Then they changed due to CGC trying to make their signature series books sell at a premium. They started putting all unwitnessed signed books in a green label - Qualified holder. My last batch of books I got back from them had those same type of signatures back again in blue label with the label note. If feel a blue label is the proper approach. Otherwise, it is similar to CGC stating that unwitnessed signed books have been defaced!

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12 hours ago, Jeffro. said:

Not necessarily. The following is my book. I had this signed back in 2001 on the bottom of the first page by Andy and Adam Kubert. Those are the "2 names written on first page in marker" listed on the label. (I wanted Joe as well but turns out he wasn't there on Sunday) 
In 2009, when I heard that all three Kuberts were going to be at a con in NY, I had a boardie faciliate all three sigs for me.

Of course, consistency is sometimes not CGC's strong suit so who knows how it will be shown on the label of the OPs book.

 

2302132127121.jpg

Since this has so many different signatures in different places, they may have run out of room on the label. Believe it or not, it's a fairly common occurrence at CGC. The graders often have to get very creative to fit all the information into the proper field, especially on Sig Series books...

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