Coverless, wraps or single pages in CGC holders thread
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13 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

Those are awesome !!  I used to have a front cover to an AA 16

If you still did I would be willing to give you a decent sized stack of cash! :cry:

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, ender said:

If you still did I would be willing to give you a decent sized stack of cash! :cry:

Sold it in 2017 Bought it slabbed for like 3k on CC 

Edited by Chicago Boy

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On 5/14/2019 at 9:14 AM, Marty Mann said:

What would be considered the FMV of my DECTECTIVE #168?

 

IMG  DETECTIVE #168  (200 dpi).jpg

IMG  JOKER PAGE   (200 dpi)_0001.jpg

Marty, did I ever respond to this ?  Don’t know enough about that book to make a educational guess 

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14 hours ago, Chicago Boy said:

Marty, did I ever respond to this ?  Don’t know enough about that book to make a educational guess 

A recent 3.0 copy sold for $10,448.90 at HAKES AUCTION...and right now with 25 days to go a CGC copy graded at 4.5 is

at $2,272.00 in the bidding.

Marty

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Marty Mann said:

A recent 3.0 copy sold for $10,448.90 at HAKES AUCTION...and right now with 25 days to go a CGC copy graded at 4.5 is

at $2,272.00 in the bidding.

Marty

If coverless copies go for $1200-$1500, then I'd say your remaindered copy is at least a $2500 book, probably more.

Edited by Illustrious

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On 5/18/2019 at 1:30 PM, Illustrious said:

If coverless copies go for $1200-$1500, then I'd say your remaindered copy is at least a $2500 book, probably more.

I guess my submission fee would be "EXPRESS" at $100.00 plus $5.00 handling...?

Marty

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On 5/21/2019 at 8:18 AM, Marty Mann said:

I guess my submission fee would be "EXPRESS" at $100.00 plus $5.00 handling...?

Marty

Marty,

I am quite sure others have more experience with this than me but as long as I entered my book's value in good faith as to what I thought they would be worth, I have never had CGC send them back or request more money from me for the grading.  Hope that helps.

 

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1 hour ago, Frisco Larson said:

I just picked this up too. LOVE Doctor Fu Manchu stories!!!

Detective 27 20th page only c-ow front mine.jpg

Detective 27 20th page only c-ow back mine.jpg

I recommend Adventure Comics #33 for you, as it has 2 Chinese tales in it: "Golden Dragon" and what appears to be a Fang Gow story.

Nvdu0aB.jpg

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2 hours ago, Frisco Larson said:

A lot of interesting viewpoints have been brought up on incomplete books, single pages, dissecting incomplete books to make more money on them, etc. I agree that many in our hobby SEVERLY undervalue books with married pages, covers, centerfolds. In other hobbies, such as vintage guitars or muscle cars, you hear terms like "period correct" or a dealer stating "1971 Les Paul Custom, once had Duncan pick-ups installed, now has correct era patent sticker Gibsons back in." Similarly, often times in the 70's or 80's someone would pull the stock wheels off of a car and put Keystones or Cragers on it. In the muscle car world, having factory correct wheels back on doesn't devalue the car that much. Even though in both examples listed above, the parts installed weren't from that EXACT guitar or car, they are original factory parts from a sister guitar or car, coming from the same original place. That is where things get a bit skewed in OUR hobby. There have been those pounding the drum that restoration is bad and that seems to have spilled over to "blended" copies as well. I disagree with that mentality completely. Just like the world we live in, there's a place for everything. I have restored books that I could NEVER expect to be able to afford in similarly graded unrestored condition. That doesn't mean I don't ever want to own one, quite the opposite actually. I have also married pages or covers for far more comics than most people I know and when I've sold any of them, I have fully disclosed what was married and have had buyers be very happy with the lesser price tag. Both restored and married books have values, usually less than untouched comics yes, but values nonetheless. A copy being worth more in pieces is mostly due to a few factors: 1. Those in the hobby who don't understand the value of married copies that listen to OTHERS who don't understand them, who proceed to tell them that they are B A D!!! 2. There are those folks that can only afford to buy a single page of their grail key, because even that single page is over a thousand dollars. My philosophy is to buy what makes you happy and also to keep your eyes open and make your own choices. If you can buy an otherwise unobtainable book because it's price is lower due to a married centerfold, give that some thought before dismissing it. Once again, there's room for everything. 

Some good points.   I am fine with people not liking what they don't like, but some people react with unbridled rage when they see that other people don't share their opinion, and behave almost as if they think it's just well nigh impossible that somebody could actually like something they don't, so it MUST be that they don't understand things fully.  They must have been conned.  Put that attitude together with the very heavily promoted notion that "only blue will do" and you get some of extremely weird results we've been seeing, like people paying more for incomplete books than for books that have been completed with married parts.

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2 hours ago, aardvark88 said:

I recommend Adventure Comics #33 for you, as it has 2 Chinese tales in it: "Golden Dragon" and what appears to be a Fang Gow story.

Nvdu0aB.jpg

I would LOVE to get a copy of Adventure 33!!! If you know of one that's available, please message me :) 

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1 hour ago, bluechip said:

Some good points.   I am fine with people not liking what they don't like, but some people react with unbridled rage when they see that other people don't share their opinion, and behave almost as if they think it's just well nigh impossible that somebody could actually like something they don't, so it MUST be that they don't understand things fully.  They must have been conned.  Put that attitude together with the very heavily promoted notion that "only blue will do" and you get some of extremely weird results we've been seeing, like people paying more for incomplete books than for books that have been completed with married parts.

I agree. It's not for me to decide what anyone else should do or like and I stay clear of that. 

I have seen some that don't purchase or collect restored books, flat out won't touch them …. loudly express their disdain for them. That's fine. I'm not swayed by that. My main concern there is that they don't brainwash new collectors entering into the hobby with their vitriol on why NOBODY should collect them. I love comics, all grades of condition. I wish that some didn't feel the need to "spit" on what they don't personally like or collect. 

As for me, I'll keep seeking out the great deals offered by the leftovers that some disregard. More books for me :)

 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/2/2019 at 11:53 AM, Frisco Larson said:

A lot of interesting viewpoints have been brought up on incomplete books, single pages, dissecting incomplete books to make more money on them, etc. I agree that many in our hobby SEVERLY undervalue books with married pages, covers, centerfolds. In other hobbies, such as vintage guitars or muscle cars, you hear terms like "period correct" or a dealer stating "1971 Les Paul Custom, once had Duncan pick-ups installed, now has correct era patent sticker Gibsons back in." Similarly, often times in the 70's or 80's someone would pull the stock wheels off of a car and put Keystones or Cragers on it. In the muscle car world, having factory correct wheels back on doesn't devalue the car that much. Even though in both examples listed above, the parts installed weren't from that EXACT guitar or car, they are original factory parts from a sister guitar or car, coming from the same original place. That is where things get a bit skewed in OUR hobby. There have been those pounding the drum that restoration is bad and that seems to have spilled over to "blended" copies as well. I disagree with that mentality completely. Just like the world we live in, there's a place for everything. I have restored books that I could NEVER expect to be able to afford in similarly graded unrestored condition. That doesn't mean I don't ever want to own one, quite the opposite actually. I have also married pages or covers for far more comics than most people I know and when I've sold any of them, I have fully disclosed what was married and have had buyers be very happy with the lesser price tag. Both restored and married books have values, usually less than untouched comics yes, but values nonetheless. A copy being worth more in pieces is mostly due to a few factors: 1. Those in the hobby who don't understand the value of married copies that listen to OTHERS who don't understand them, who proceed to tell them that they are B A D!!! 2. There are those folks that can only afford to buy a single page of their grail key, because even that single page is over a thousand dollars. My philosophy is to buy what makes you happy and also to keep your eyes open and make your own choices. If you can buy an otherwise unobtainable book because it's price is lower due to a married centerfold, give that some thought before dismissing it. Once again, there's room for everything. 

100% your comparison with cars and guitars nailed it! The high-end elitist collector mentality has amazed me for years. " if it's trimmed I would rather not have it," if it's married I will pass" These books are 70 yrs old and they have their value & there place in the hobby but seem to get no respect on a lot of boards.( although I do think that is slowly changing as the top end is out of reach for all but the wealthiest of collectors ) God bless those that can spend huge amounts of cash on only perfect examples. I know all of us wish we could have an AC # 1 Blue 8.5 ( anyone else have the lottery fantasy a few times a year?) I can't speak for anyone on this board but in my store, a $1000 purchase is a big buy for most of my customer base. Again not begrudging anyone who can do that. I recently sold a half cover AF 15 to a customer and the buyer had saved for a year to buy it and it will be the highlight of his collection. I am thrilled there are still many real-world collectors who cherish having these books in any condition. 

PS I don't know why but your post reminded me of the guys who trailer in there 1969 Camaro Z28 & talk about the numbers matching on the steering column really WTF?  I go sideways with mine and eat big macks in it and the transmission is an M22 from a 1970 Chevelle.

 

Edited by Frank Mozz

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The current bid for the CGC 4.5 copy of DETECTIVE #168 during the current ComicConnect auction is $10,000.00 with

10 days left...the value is really in this single page.

 

IMG  JOKER PAGE   (200 dpi)_0001.jpg

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Frisco Larson said:

I agree. It's not for me to decide what anyone else should do or like and I stay clear of that. 

I have seen some that don't purchase or collect restored books, flat out won't touch them …. loudly express their disdain for them. That's fine. I'm not swayed by that. My main concern there is that they don't brainwash new collectors entering into the hobby with their vitriol on why NOBODY should collect them. I love comics, all grades of condition. I wish that some didn't feel the need to "spit" on what they don't personally like or collect. 

As for me, I'll keep seeking out the great deals offered by the leftovers that some disregard. More books for me :)

 

It's one thing when people "loudly express their disdain" or, for that matter, when people "spit on" something.   I can even hold my tongue when I see people referring to the number of "universal" or "blue" books and it's clear they're trying hard to establish a conventional norm that if it ain't blue it doesn't actually exist.  (never mind that they're including books which are poor and even incomplete while excluding ones that are as much as near mint except for an archive paper seal).  At least then it's their opinion which is being expressed and while the chosen words can be misleading, they're not trying (at least not openly) to force others to follow their criteria.

What I cannot abide, though, is the insistence that if the book is something they "spit on" that the label must express their disdain and spit on the book.

Some insist on labels that spit on books, even if it requires using inconsistent or misleading color-coding and/or using words in a way that is contrary to their actual meaning.   And, further demanding that anybody who owns a book they would spit on must be required to put their book in a holder with the "spit-on-it" label.    

Edited by bluechip

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19 hours ago, Frisco Larson said:

I would LOVE to get a copy of Adventure 33! :) 

The Mongolian 'Fang Gow' storyline seems to be convoluted as it ran through different GA DC titles like More Fun, New Adventure, Adventure Comics. Leo O'Mealia excellent artwork on Barry O'Neill's 'Fang Gow' from More Fun #29:

rISQlNS.jpg

Dramatic themes like selling one's daughter into slavery or instruments of torture all found in a 2 page storyline. You could also branch out into collecting pulps with an evil Yellow peril theme since you like Dr Fu Manchu:

F639tsZ.jpg

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https://www.amazon.com/DC-Comics-Before-Superman-Wheeler-Nicholsons/dp/1613451644/ref=asc_df_1613451644/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312154637207&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14261358791171620065&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1026578&hvtargid=pla-566285711897&psc=1

I have recommended this before in other threads but it is a really cool history of the pulp influences on pre hero DC. And of interest in this thread it reprints most of the Fang Gow stories for a fraction of what it would cost to buy the original comics, if you could even find them!

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On 6/2/2019 at 6:37 PM, bluechip said:

It's one thing when people "loudly express their disdain" or, for that matter, when people "spit on" something.   I can even hold my tongue when I see people referring to the number of "universal" or "blue" books and it's clear they're trying hard to establish a conventional norm that if it ain't blue it doesn't actually exist.  (never mind that they're including books which are poor and even incomplete while excluding ones that are as much as near mint except for an archive paper seal).  At least then it's their opinion which is being expressed and while the chosen words can be misleading, they're not trying (at least not openly) to force others to follow their criteria.

What I cannot abide, though, is the insistence that if the book is something they "spit on" that the label must express their disdain and spit on the book.

Some insist on labels that spit on books, even if it requires using inconsistent or misleading color-coding and/or using words in a way that is contrary to their actual meaning.   And, further demanding that anybody who owns a book they would spit on must be required to put their book in a holder with the "spit-on-it" label.    

Bob, you are ahead of the curve with a lot of your views. Rooted in logic, in opposition to mainstream nonsense.

:golfclap:

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