American Flagg #1 cover at HA. 0

[PhilipB2k17]

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 11:05 AM, delekkerste said:

It's different for the art than it is for the comics, because there are comics guys who will collect for rarity and the challenge of the hunt. Since art is one of a kind, no one collects a certain type of art simply because it is more rare than others. In fact, lack of supply is one of the biggest factors in suppressing the growth of a collector base for a certain artist, and often has exactly the opposite effect on prices than you would think.  

My friend @Michael OML1  is a big GA collector and he readily admits that he is pretty much the only collector for much of this material. It's a legitimate question to ask what happens to the market for this material in 20+ years. 

Golden Age art featuring the big DC and Timely heroes, maybe Captain Marvel (now that the film seems to be a franchise starter), and classic characters who will get revived, like Flash Gordon, might actually still be collectible and retain some value. But, obscure GA stuff is not going to.

[batman_fan]

On 5/15/2019 at 1:17 AM, tth2 said:

You're preaching to the choir, Gene! 

I think the prices being paid for a lot of mediocre 70s and 80s OA, which came from equally mediocre comics, is nuts.  It's all about nostalgia, and once the generation that grew up reading that stuff stops collecting, there won't be any support.

Someone who didn't grow up reading John Buscema Conan is going to wonder why anyone would pay whatever it is that people who grew up reading JB Conan are currently paying.  

leave John out of this 

[tth2]

Everyone's been focusing on the AF 1 cover, but no one's been talking about the first page of Love & Rockets, an equally iconic indie title, which just sold for $28,800.

[Timely]

AF sold $26,400!

[Nexus]

$26400.

You know, if you asked me 20 years ago, which I would rather have, Chaykin's AF #1 cover or his STAR WARS #1 cover...I probably would have chosen AF #1. Despite having MUCH more nostalgia for the STAR WARS cover. That's how much I respected this AF cover.

I'd be kicking myself now, of course.

[delekkerste]

Glad it sold for a healthy sum so I have no regrets for not pursuing it more aggressively. 

[tth2]

Love & Rockets 1 interior page > AF 1 cover

Who woulda thunk it?

Edited May 18, 2019 by tth2

[comix4fun]

2 hours ago, tth2 said:

Love & Rockets 1 interior page > AF 1 cover

Who woulda thunk it?

I have been thinking about exactly this comparison. Initially I was surprised at the Love and Rockets result, but I probably should not have been. 

American Flagg is well remembered, nostalgically, by many. But it's sort of a time capsule. It's entirely contained in that era. For better or worse ( and I enjoyed the hell out of that series at the time ) it has no "legs" in the present day.  It never continued in earnest or evolved with the times or grew beyond its very set borders and parameters.

Love and Rockets, however, only seems to be gaining in respect and notoriety over time. It's aged incredibly well, evolved over time, and the respect and influence it has had over other creators in now (almost) 40 years of being in print.

The Love and Rockets # 1 page was not just a page from #1, it was Hopey and Maggie's very first page. All of it, the last near-40 years of wonderful, influential, and respected stories and their world began right there on that page. 

AF had a bigger splash in its day, but Love and Rockets has won the long haul race. It would be difficult to pinpoint a more perfect example of Love and Rockets than this cradle of its existence. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by comix4fun

[ESeffinga]

11 hours ago, tth2 said:

Love & Rockets 1 interior page > AF 1 cover

Who woulda thunk it?

Me. In a heartbeat.

Los Bros Hernandez have been and are seen as arteurs outside of mainstream comics, in a way that Chaykin never has been. I’m not talking about being an outsider from the perspective of comic shop frequenters, but being artists doing something interesting to non-comic readers. Your New Yorker magazine crowd that doesn’t like “comics” but appreciate Spiegelman, Ware, Tomine, etc. And truly where would most Indy comics be today, never mind just the award winning autobiographical ones be, if Love & Rockets hadn’t been paving the way.

Jamie Hernandez is the favorite artist of so many of today’s favorite artists. He’s your favorite band’s favorite band.

Some creators are only appreciated for the character, and at the end of the day it’s Batman or Spider-Man that is important.

L&R is important because of Jamie Hernandez ( and his brothers) and their life experiences and imaginations. Rather than the other way around.

AF was a good finite read at a point in time. Dated and passing from consciousness. L&R while not huge numbers is still effective and effecting today. The parts that are dated are clearly of a time. Unabashedly so, but fitting within a larger scope of growth of characters and storylines. It’s a pretty monumental achievement. 

No matter how much a fanboy pays for the latest McSpidey, or  Bat-cover. The Hernandez bros will be so much closer to the art gallery set. Crumb’s content is starting to rankle society, as we are discussing the appropriations in Egyptian Queen. L&R represents the opposite. Inclusiveness. Creativity without animosity or the mean spiritedness of the white male gaze.

I’d say L&R has the legs for the long race hands-down.

-e. 

[vodou]

1 hour ago, ESeffinga said:

And truly where would most Indy comics be today, never mind just the award winning autobiographical ones be, if Love & Rockets hadn’t been paving the way.

Arguably Los Bros kept Fantagraphics from going under, at least until Eightball and Hate took off a decade later. A world without Fantagraphics..? Sheesh. I'm sure some of those creators (Chris Ware, for example) would have found other ways to get their work in print but it's anyboy's guess what the compromises would have been, how many actual issues would have come out, etc.

[tth2]

1 hour ago, ESeffinga said:

Me. In a heartbeat.

Los Bros Hernandez have been and are seen as arteurs outside of mainstream comics, in a way that Chaykin never has been. I’m not talking about being an outsider from the perspective of comic shop frequenters, but being artists doing something interesting to non-comic readers. Your New Yorker magazine crowd that doesn’t like “comics” but appreciate Spiegelman, Ware, Tomine, etc. And truly where would most Indy comics be today, never mind just the award winning autobiographical ones be, if Love & Rockets hadn’t been paving the way.

Jamie Hernandez is the favorite artist of so many of today’s favorite artists. He’s your favorite band’s favorite band.

Some creators are only appreciated for the character, and at the end of the day it’s Batman or Spider-Man that is important.

L&R is important because of Jamie Hernandez ( and his brothers) and their life experiences and imaginations. Rather than the other way around.

AF was a good finite read at a point in time. Dated and passing from consciousness. L&R while not huge numbers is still effective and effecting today. The parts that are dated are clearly of a time. Unabashedly so, but fitting within a larger scope of growth of characters and storylines. It’s a pretty monumental achievement. 

No matter how much a fanboy pays for the latest McSpidey, or  Bat-cover. The Hernandez bros will be so much closer to the art gallery set. Crumb’s content is starting to rankle society, as we are discussing the appropriations in Egyptian Queen. L&R represents the opposite. Inclusiveness. Creativity without animosity or the mean spiritedness of the white male gaze.

I’d say L&R has the legs for the long race hands-down.

-e. 

Excellent post! 

[Rick2you2]

I saw Howard at the East Coast Comicon yesterday and told him what AF 1 went for. He had heard it, but his general reaction was amazement people would spend that kind of money for this stuff. I agree. 

[vodou]

3 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I saw Howard at the East Coast Comicon yesterday and told him what AF 1 went for. He had heard it, but his general reaction was amazement people would spend that kind of money for this stuff. I agree. 

$600 was a lot 35 years ago when he priced it himself too. Oh the gall! That was probably three 'decent' Kirby panel pages.

At least that first sale included a panel page (per mmehdy).

[Rick2you2]

52 minutes ago, vodou said:

$600 was a lot 35 years ago when he priced it himself too. Oh the gall! That was probably three 'decent' Kirby panel pages.

At least that first sale included a panel page (per mmehdy).

I think the value of money hasn't gone up quite as much as this stuff. I did pick up an inexpensive page from him yesterday from one of his books. I bought it mostly for the bottom panel. THAT is a kiss.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Rick2you2

[vodou]

Nice new Chaykin!

Value of money, whatever benchmark you might use, I use 15% or double every five years. Yesterday's AF1 sale loses against that benchmark ($600 x35yrs = doubled 7 times), and probably for the best buy/sell dates too. Doesn't matter if you want the art, can afford to toss off the scratch, and that's that. Not everybody does it this way, but for four figure+ decisions, that's just how I do it.

[Mmehdy]

2 hours ago, vodou said:

Nice new Chaykin!

Value of money, whatever benchmark you might use, I use 15% or double every five years. Yesterday's AF1 sale loses against that benchmark ($600 x35yrs = doubled 7 times), and probably for the best buy/sell dates too. Doesn't matter if you want the art, can afford to toss off the scratch, and that's that. Not everybody does it this way, but for four figure+ decisions, that's just how I do it.

I valued the piece 2019 at 25K on a past post for 2019..given the fact that there is an explosion of new TV/Moives and platforms..so the chances are good it will be optioned and made right...then 25K was the right and solid price..here it was $26,400...if it fades I feel it will always retain a value of say $12,500 or something like that. I enjoyed the piece, hung in my bathroom..LOL for many years and made about 10X the price I paid; when I bought it I did not buy it as Solely an investment and I hope that is the case here for the new owner, its a great piece..win, lose or draw its a privilege to own it...GL to the new owner. I sold it only to help obtain a new more expensive piece( traded up) and would still own it today if not for the necessity of acquiring something I desired more.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Mmehdy

[comix4fun]

10 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

. I enjoyed the piece, hung in my bathroom..

 

First off.....

1) Ewwww

2) 

 

...or before whomever won this thing actually placed their bids.

 

3) Because the eventual owners would have probably said something like (placing "Art" in place of "Book")....

Edited May 19, 2019 by comix4fun

[Mmehdy]

4 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

 

First off.....

1) Ewwww

2) 

 

...or before whomever won this thing actually placed their bids.

 

3) Because the eventual owners would have probably said something like (placing "Art" in place of "Book")....

good news is it was the guest bath and hung along with the title page..so it was not in use everyday..lol...But it is black and white and a good place to avoid the sun...here in Calle

Edited May 19, 2019 by Mmehdy

[comix4fun]

Just now, Mmehdy said:

good news is it was the guest bath along with the title page..so it was not used everyday..lol

Nonetheless.....ewwww

[Mmehdy]

2 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Nonetheless.....ewwww

I also had an original amazing stories pulp cover from the 1940's and a Pearl Frush pin up painting  in the same bathroom....all under glass or course.....the Frush also needed to avoid sunlight.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Mmehdy