American Flagg #1 cover at HA.
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, delekkerste said:

It's different for the art than it is for the comics, because there are comics guys who will collect for rarity and the challenge of the hunt. Since art is one of a kind, no one collects a certain type of art simply because it is more rare than others. In fact, lack of supply is one of the biggest factors in suppressing the growth of a collector base for a certain artist, and often has exactly the opposite effect on prices than you would think.  

My friend @Michael OML1  is a big GA collector and he readily admits that he is pretty much the only collector for much of this material. It's a legitimate question to ask what happens to the market for this material in 20+ years. 

Actually, I love finding one of a kind pieces by an artist who has never drawn the Phantom Stranger and likely won't do so again--or maybe, shouldn't. That's why I just bought a splash by Cully Hammer from "Day of Judgment Secret Files". He looks like the Green Hornet with a hole in his chest.

RAD1CFB0201928_13185.jpg

I would also love to get a Scribblenauts version, but I hear it's just digital.

Edited by Rick2you2

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1 hour ago, Bill C said:

If you could do it consistently.

True. It's great not having to work anymore.

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41 minutes ago, vodou said:

True. It's great not having to work anymore.

Absolutely

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12 hours ago, delekkerste said:

Note to Tim (tth2):  this does not, for a millisecond, imply that there aren't comics and comic art which transcend those who grew up with it (for various reasons - being reprinted, being published as trades/collections, being used as the source material for film/TV, classic/iconic covers, hobby folklore, etc.) But, it certainly does imply that there is A LOT of material that is largely "of its time" and will, as we've seen in other mediums, eventually and inevitably see its fanbase shrink over time. My bet is that a lot of what we loved in the '80s is going to fall into that category. 2c 

You're preaching to the choir, Gene! 

I think the prices being paid for a lot of mediocre 70s and 80s OA, which came from equally mediocre comics, is nuts.  It's all about nostalgia, and once the generation that grew up reading that stuff stops collecting, there won't be any support.

Someone who didn't grow up reading John Buscema Conan is going to wonder why anyone would pay whatever it is that people who grew up reading JB Conan are currently paying.  

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16 hours ago, Bronty said:
16 hours ago, tth2 said:

Ah, this would explain the bargain basement prices for the runs of Hit, Pep, Mystery Men etc. that have come on the market in recent years.  

Oh, wait... 

And yet you bought a Mile High Lone Ranger (?) for the amount of the tip on a group dinner at a nice restaurant.   Mile High.

I'm not disagreeing that some non-descript GA comics, particularly from a genre as dead as Westerns, won't go for very much.  But by the same token, non-descript GA comics that don't have classic covers or relevant characters can still command major bucks.  

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6 hours ago, tth2 said:

I'm not disagreeing that some non-descript GA comics, particularly from a genre as dead as Westerns, won't go for very much.  But by the same token, non-descript GA comics that don't have classic covers or relevant characters can still command major bucks.  

Yes, typically when they are from relevant or important publishers, or from a title that introduced characters, some degree of separation from something somebody gives a about.   

The very early or major publishers, the very early or relevant characters, the real classic covers, etc.

Your point is true, and its not in conflict with my point, at all.

The essence of the GA has been reduced down to a few important books and the rest....... are all kind of unimportant.   

That same process of sifting the wheat from the chaff is happening to all eras, all the time.   But the further we are out from the publishing date, the more pronounced the effect.

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On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 11:05 AM, delekkerste said:

It's different for the art than it is for the comics, because there are comics guys who will collect for rarity and the challenge of the hunt. Since art is one of a kind, no one collects a certain type of art simply because it is more rare than others. In fact, lack of supply is one of the biggest factors in suppressing the growth of a collector base for a certain artist, and often has exactly the opposite effect on prices than you would think.  

My friend @Michael OML1  is a big GA collector and he readily admits that he is pretty much the only collector for much of this material. It's a legitimate question to ask what happens to the market for this material in 20+ years. 

Golden Age art featuring the big DC and Timely heroes, maybe Captain Marvel (now that the film seems to be a franchise starter), and classic characters who will get revived, like Flash Gordon, might actually still be collectible and retain some value. But, obscure GA stuff is not going to.

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On 5/15/2019 at 1:17 AM, tth2 said:

You're preaching to the choir, Gene! 

I think the prices being paid for a lot of mediocre 70s and 80s OA, which came from equally mediocre comics, is nuts.  It's all about nostalgia, and once the generation that grew up reading that stuff stops collecting, there won't be any support.

Someone who didn't grow up reading John Buscema Conan is going to wonder why anyone would pay whatever it is that people who grew up reading JB Conan are currently paying.  

leave John out of this :sumo:

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17 minutes ago, tth2 said:

Everyone's been focusing on the AF 1 cover, but no one's been talking about the first page of Love & Rockets, an equally iconic indie title, which just sold for $28,800.

I noticed that getting some strong action yesterday

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$26400.

You know, if you asked me 20 years ago, which I would rather have, Chaykin's AF #1 cover or his STAR WARS #1 cover...I probably would have chosen AF #1. Despite having MUCH more nostalgia for the STAR WARS cover. That's how much I respected this AF cover.

I'd be kicking myself now, of course.

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Glad it sold for a healthy sum so I have no regrets for not pursuing it more aggressively. 

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Posted (edited)

Love & Rockets 1 interior page > AF 1 cover

Who woulda thunk it?

Edited by tth2

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1 hour ago, ESeffinga said:

And truly where would most Indy comics be today, never mind just the award winning autobiographical ones be, if Love & Rockets hadn’t been paving the way.

Arguably Los Bros kept Fantagraphics from going under, at least until Eightball and Hate took off a decade later. A world without Fantagraphics..? Sheesh. I'm sure some of those creators (Chris Ware, for example) would have found other ways to get their work in print but it's anyboy's guess what the compromises would have been, how many actual issues would have come out, etc.

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1 hour ago, ESeffinga said:

Me. In a heartbeat.

Los Bros Hernandez have been and are seen as arteurs outside of mainstream comics, in a way that Chaykin never has been. I’m not talking about being an outsider from the perspective of comic shop frequenters, but being artists doing something interesting to non-comic readers. Your New Yorker magazine crowd that doesn’t like “comics” but appreciate Spiegelman, Ware, Tomine, etc. And truly where would most Indy comics be today, never mind just the award winning autobiographical ones be, if Love & Rockets hadn’t been paving the way.

Jamie Hernandez is the favorite artist of so many of today’s favorite artists. He’s your favorite band’s favorite band.

Some creators are only appreciated for the character, and at the end of the day it’s Batman or Spider-Man that is important.

L&R is important because of Jamie Hernandez ( and his brothers) and their life experiences and imaginations. Rather than the other way around.

AF was a good finite read at a point in time. Dated and passing from consciousness. L&R while not huge numbers is still effective and effecting today. The parts that are dated are clearly of a time. Unabashedly so, but fitting within a larger scope of growth of characters and storylines. It’s a pretty monumental achievement. 

No matter how much a fanboy pays for the latest McSpidey, or  Bat-cover. The Hernandez bros will be so much closer to the art gallery set. Crumb’s content is starting to rankle society, as we are discussing the appropriations in Egyptian Queen. L&R represents the opposite. Inclusiveness. Creativity without animosity or the mean spiritedness of the white male gaze.

I’d say L&R has the legs for the long race hands-down.

-e. 

Excellent post! (thumbsu

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I saw Howard at the East Coast Comicon yesterday and told him what AF 1 went for. He had heard it, but his general reaction was amazement people would spend that kind of money for this stuff. I agree. 

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3 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I saw Howard at the East Coast Comicon yesterday and told him what AF 1 went for. He had heard it, but his general reaction was amazement people would spend that kind of money for this stuff. I agree. 

$600 was a lot 35 years ago when he priced it himself too. Oh the gall! That was probably three 'decent' Kirby panel pages.

:)

At least that first sale included a panel page (per mmehdy).

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