American Flagg #1 cover at HA.
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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, vodou said:

$600 was a lot 35 years ago when he priced it himself too. Oh the gall! That was probably three 'decent' Kirby panel pages.

:)

At least that first sale included a panel page (per mmehdy).

I think the value of money hasn't gone up quite as much as this stuff. I did pick up an inexpensive page from him yesterday from one of his books. I bought it mostly for the bottom panel. THAT is a kiss.

ChaykinWesternbook.thumb.jpg.3e74efffa8789fd79041a57131e2bbb5.jpg

Edited by Rick2you2

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Nice new Chaykin!

Value of money, whatever benchmark you might use, I use 15% or double every five years. Yesterday's AF1 sale loses against that benchmark ($600 x35yrs = doubled 7 times), and probably for the best buy/sell dates too. Doesn't matter if you want the art, can afford to toss off the scratch, and that's that. Not everybody does it this way, but for four figure+ decisions, that's just how I do it.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, vodou said:

Nice new Chaykin!

Value of money, whatever benchmark you might use, I use 15% or double every five years. Yesterday's AF1 sale loses against that benchmark ($600 x35yrs = doubled 7 times), and probably for the best buy/sell dates too. Doesn't matter if you want the art, can afford to toss off the scratch, and that's that. Not everybody does it this way, but for four figure+ decisions, that's just how I do it.

I valued the piece 2019 at 25K on a past post for 2019..given the fact that there is an explosion of new TV/Moives and platforms..so the chances are good it will be optioned and made right...then 25K was the right and solid price..here it was $26,400...if it fades I feel it will always retain a value of say $12,500 or something like that. I enjoyed the piece, hung in my bathroom..LOL for many years and made about 10X the price I paid; when I bought it I did not buy it as Solely an investment and I hope that is the case here for the new owner, its a great piece..win, lose or draw its a privilege to own it...GL to the new owner. I sold it only to help obtain a new more expensive piece( traded up) and would still own it today if not for the necessity of acquiring something I desired more.

Edited by Mmehdy

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

. I enjoyed the piece, hung in my bathroom..

 

First off.....

1) Ewwww

2) 

tenor-15.gif.3eb79d4d9ec24ee8dd7d5ff441908977.gif

 

...or before whomever won this thing actually placed their bids.

 

3) Because the eventual owners would have probably said something like (placing "Art" in place of "Book")....

anigif_enhanced-14071-1403999918-25.gif.e8efd59ce4aed509848ade914c51bb49.gif

Edited by comix4fun

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

 

First off.....

1) Ewwww

2) 

tenor-15.gif.3eb79d4d9ec24ee8dd7d5ff441908977.gif

 

...or before whomever won this thing actually placed their bids.

 

3) Because the eventual owners would have probably said something like (placing "Art" in place of "Book")....

anigif_enhanced-14071-1403999918-25.gif.e8efd59ce4aed509848ade914c51bb49.gif

good news is it was the guest bath and hung along with the title page..so it was not in use everyday..lol...But it is black and white and a good place to avoid the sun...here in Calle

Edited by Mmehdy

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Just now, Mmehdy said:

good news is it was the guest bath along with the title page..so it was not used everyday..lol

Nonetheless.....ewwww

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Nonetheless.....ewwww

I also had an original amazing stories pulp cover from the 1940's and a Pearl Frush pin up painting  in the same bathroom....all under glass or course.....the Frush also needed to avoid sunlight.

Edited by Mmehdy

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On 5/19/2019 at 10:44 AM, vodou said:

Nice new Chaykin!

Thanks, but the real prize doesn't come until next month. I was asked to keep it a secret, so I will.

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On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 1:22 PM, Mmehdy said:

good news is it was the guest bath and hung along with the title page..so it was not in use everyday..lol...But it is black and white and a good place to avoid the sun...here in Calle

"Hard Times!" indeed...

Flagg1.thumb.jpg.57b9bc44a9f0b0b812c49cb16aaed545.jpg

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I've been tracking this for a while, and sorry to say, even if a comic is actually made into a TV show, the value of the art barely budges. It has to become part of the cultural zeitgeist to even move the needle, like Walking Dead. The only other art I've seen get a bump from its TV show is Preacher, and that was short lived. In fact, most of this art gets a slight bump when the TV show is announced, and then quickly fades. 

So, unless AF is made into the next big cultural touchstone on HBO, or something, the art isn't going to get a bump from it being turned into a TV show.

Movies seem to have a slightly bigger effect, but even then it tends to be short-lived except for KEY pages from KEY stories. (See the price bump for infinity Gauntlet pages).

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7 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I've been tracking this for a while, and sorry to say, even if a comic is actually made into a TV show, the value of the art barely budges. It has to become part of the cultural zeitgeist to even move the needle, like Walking Dead. The only other art I've seen get a bump from its TV show is Preacher, and that was short lived. In fact, most of this art gets a slight bump when the TV show is announced, and then quickly fades. 

So, unless AF is made into the next big cultural touchstone on HBO, or something, the art isn't going to get a bump from it being turned into a TV show.

Movies seem to have a slightly bigger effect, but even then it tends to be short-lived except for KEY pages from KEY stories. (See the price bump for infinity Gauntlet pages).

that depends if it is a single movie, better chance if it is a tv series...I think the time is right for this...I still see a big upside to the purchase.

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12 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I've been tracking this for a while, and sorry to say, even if a comic is actually made into a TV show, the value of the art barely budges. It has to become part of the cultural zeitgeist to even move the needle, like Walking Dead. The only other art I've seen get a bump from its TV show is Preacher, and that was short lived. In fact, most of this art gets a slight bump when the TV show is announced, and then quickly fades. 

So, unless AF is made into the next big cultural touchstone on HBO, or something, the art isn't going to get a bump from it being turned into a TV show.

Movies seem to have a slightly bigger effect, but even then it tends to be short-lived except for KEY pages from KEY stories. (See the price bump for infinity Gauntlet pages).

For all it’s worth, I have reason to believe the AF project is dead.

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12 hours ago, GreatEscape said:

"Hard Times!" indeed...

Flagg1.thumb.jpg.57b9bc44a9f0b0b812c49cb16aaed545.jpg

:roflmao:

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

For all it’s worth, I have reason to believe the AF project is dead.

Even when it was announced, I never thought the project would see the light of day.  I don't see this is as being a property with mass appeal (at least not if they stay true to its comic book roots), and, while it certainly stood out in 1983, in 2019, I think it's just one of a gazillion other sci-fi themed franchises that isn't likely to stand out nowadays.  

As time goes on, there's a lot of art that's going to move collections and end up in the hands of a member of the last generation to truly love and appreciate it the way no subsequent generation will.  Anyone thinking they're going to make a killing buying those kinds of pieces at auction in 2019 is kidding themselves, IMO. I read that the average IRR (internal rate of return, annualized) for the pieces that re-sold in the latest round of contemporary art auctions, you know, the ones that got the headlines for fetching record prices, was only about 5%. You want to be the guy buying the AF #1 cover for $600 in the 1980s and selling it for 40-fold in 2019*, or the guy buying the Monet "Meules" for $2.5 million in 1986 and selling it for 40-fold in 2019.  

 

* Yes, I know it changed hands in the interim a couple of times.

Edited by delekkerste

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10 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Even when it was announced, I never thought the project would see the light of day.  I don't see this is as being a property with mass appeal (at least not if they stay true to its comic book roots), and, while it certainly stood out in 1983, in 2019, I think it's just one of a gazillion other sci-fi themed franchises that isn't likely to stand out nowadays.  

As time goes on, there's a lot of art that's going to move collections and end up in the hands of a member of the last generation to truly love and appreciate it the way no subsequent generation will.  Anyone thinking they're going to make a killing buying those kinds of pieces at auction in 2019 is kidding themselves, IMO. I read that the average IRR (internal rate of return, annualized) for the pieces that re-sold in the latest round of contemporary art auctions, you know, the ones that got the headlines for fetching record prices, was only about 5%. You want to be the guy buying the AF #1 cover for $600 in the 1980s and selling it for 40-fold in 2019*, or the guy buying the Monet "Meules" for $2.5 million in 1986 and selling it for 40-fold in 2019.  

 

* Yes, I know it changed hands in the interim a couple of times.

Most people don't have the stomach for that kind of risk.   They'd rather buy at 10k (when its already established to have value) and net 15k out of it later.  

Besides, those early buy opportunities aren't really there in comics anymore.

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4 minutes ago, Bronty said:

They'd rather buy at 10k (when its already established to have value) and net 15k out of it later.  

lol

image.thumb.png.6edba567017692f849fa484beecb6c06.png

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25 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I read that the average IRR (internal rate of return, annualized) for the pieces that re-sold in the latest round of contemporary art auctions, you know, the ones that got the headlines for fetching record prices, was only about 5%.

Under cold analytical scrutiny, awful return on this bankable star lot:

image.png.0a269396a9aae74ab98e59de8afdd6c6.png

A number of Christie’s specialists from Asia were notably active throughout the evening, bidding for clients via the phone bank. This included feverish bidding for the top lot, which was won by Rebecca Wei, president of Christie’s Asia, for a phone client. The work was a pristine still life by Cézanne, Bouilloire et fruits (1888–90), that was estimated in the region of $40 million.

Auctioneer Adrian Meyer opened the bidding at $30 million, drawing roughly half a dozen bids from various Christie’s specialists before it was hammered down to Wei’s client at $52 million. Perhaps in a sign of how determined her buyer was to win the prized painting, Wei’s first bid came after the price had already been driven up to $48 million. Including buyer’s premium, the final price was $59.3 million.

The Cézanne was once part of a notorious 1978 robbery from collector Michael Bakwin in the Berkshires in Massachusetts. The work was recovered in 1999, and that same year, S.I. Newhouse bought it for $29.5 million at Sotheby’s London.

https://news.artnet.com/market/christies-impressionist-modern-auction-1544419?utm_content=from_&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=News Saturday 5%2F18%2F19&utm_term=artnet News Daily Newsletter USE

Twenty years to turn 29.5m 52m (and that's assuming no SP). Ugly. But yeah...buy what you love ;)

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56 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Even when it was announced, I never thought the project would see the light of day.  I don't see this is as being a property with mass appeal (at least not if they stay true to its comic book roots), and, while it certainly stood out in 1983, in 2019, I think it's just one of a gazillion other sci-fi themed franchises that isn't likely to stand out nowadays.  

As time goes on, there's a lot of art that's going to move collections and end up in the hands of a member of the last generation to truly love and appreciate it the way no subsequent generation will.  Anyone thinking they're going to make a killing buying those kinds of pieces at auction in 2019 is kidding themselves, IMO. I read that the average IRR (internal rate of return, annualized) for the pieces that re-sold in the latest round of contemporary art auctions, you know, the ones that got the headlines for fetching record prices, was only about 5%. You want to be the guy buying the AF #1 cover for $600 in the 1980s and selling it for 40-fold in 2019*, or the guy buying the Monet "Meules" for $2.5 million in 1986 and selling it for 40-fold in 2019.  

 

* Yes, I know it changed hands in the interim a couple of times.

I don't necessarily agree that Flagg! wouldn't make a good TV show. It all depends on the execution, of course. I think it may get made, just not for a while. Europacorp may not make it. But, it's still an IP asset they can sell off to help pay debts, if nothing else.

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1 hour ago, Bronty said:

Most people don't have the stomach for that kind of risk.   They'd rather buy at 10k (when its already established to have value) and net 15k out of it later.  

Besides, those early buy opportunities aren't really there in comics anymore.

This is really true.  I've sold about half of my collection this year to fund some other purchases/investments and had a good chunk of change left over.  I've been looking for some good buys to put that money back into and can't find anything so I bought a house instead.  My returns were great on things that I held over 10-15 years, I'm curious to know if that would remain true on books bought currently.  

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1 hour ago, vodou said:

Twenty years to turn 29.5m 52m (and that's assuming no SP). Ugly. But yeah...buy what you love ;)

Definitely not a good return. I suspect some Impressionist art is still flat-to-down from their 1989-90 peak (as of a few years ago, that was definitely still the case). The current bull market in art has made people forget about 1990-1996, when everything got pole-axed and nothing was spared, not the lowest of the low, nor the best of the best.  

 

1 hour ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I don't necessarily agree that Flagg! wouldn't make a good TV show. It all depends on the execution, of course. I think it may get made, just not for a while. Europacorp may not make it. But, it's still an IP asset they can sell off to help pay debts, if nothing else.

Hope springs eternal! :baiting: 

1 hour ago, Bronty said:

Most people don't have the stomach for that kind of risk.   They'd rather buy at 10k (when its already established to have value) and net 15k out of it later.  

Besides, those early buy opportunities aren't really there in comics anymore.

They're not really there most anywhere these days. We're living in the easiest money times that have ever existed (negative interest rates in much of the globe!); money has flowed into anything and everything over the past decade in search of return, pulling forward returns and increasing valuations to all-time highs for most assets.  Vodou's 15% rate of return benchmark is not so easy to hit anymore without taking substantial risk; just look at how badly pension funds are coping with their liabilities even with many asset classes near all-time highs.  Hard to earn substantial returns when the center of gravity is down near zero.

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