The SS Census Discussion Thread
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Over the weekend I had a conversation regarding the fact that there will never be a comprehensive CGC-sponsored database that contains all the information on signatures(-who signed what, how many sigs there are of each creator, etc.). Additionally, my participation in the Frazetta discussion thread has shown me two things, my memory fails at times, and people really want this information.  In my mind, this Board (and former active members of the Boards who were active in SS before 2007) is the greatest storehouse of knowledge on the subject.  I have been subject to the thought over time that holding the knowledge and parsing it out only when necessary or advantageous is the most individually beneficial model. However, as part of this conversation, the other conversant pointed out that the market will not be able to fully mature without a better mechanism for people to understand the supply side of the equation - leading me to consider that it may be more beneficial for all the information to be readily available. 

I envision this thread as a place to discuss this idea and maybe to begin to frame out what an ongoing thread with the best information that we all collectively can cull would look like.  At least it should make for some good discussion (hopefully!) 

--S.

 

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Posted (edited)

Fantastic idea!
It would be wonderful for something like this to be created, nurtured and flourish within the community.
The added benefit (and value) for past, present and future signature series enthusiasts (buyers and dealers alike) would be immeasurable.

Edited by umyeahwhatevers

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Thanks man - maybe as a way of identifying what this looks like we can start with an illustrative example. Someone posted about Stephen King a couple of weeks ago.  I know for a fact that @Rich_Henn was the guy that did the only King signing.  My recollection is that there were between 12-15 books done.  Between Rich and the rest of us that got books done, we should be able to nail it down and give the world an idea of how many King SS exist.  For those who want to drool:

http://www.myslabbedcomics.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=7751&GSub=627

 

 

 

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Such a database/census would be amazing. How many books (if any) did certain creators sign before they passed away or stopped doing signings altogether. Or how many books are signed by famous creator teams, or are there any creators who only signed a shockingly low or high number of books, or any books with a crazy number of sigs on a single book. Endless questions. 

Also, it'd be fun just to see what unexplainable SS books that exist. I bet out there there's a Fantastic Four #52 signed by Artgerm or Amazing Spider-Man #300 signed by the Harlem Globetrotters or something... 

Agree it's a great idea. 

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I’m still not convinced this is a good idea. I have hesitations about how the information would be a) be compiled without CGC’s help, and b) used to make books more (or less) valuable.  I dunno. Seems like there is no win-win situation here for CGC and at best it’s win-lose for collectors.  Maybe if the database was just a collection of creator/signature names that listed how many times their names appear on a book, not what specific books they appear on per se. 

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6 hours ago, RadiantGraphix said:

I’m still not convinced this is a good idea. I have hesitations about how the information would be a) be compiled without CGC’s help, and b) used to make books more (or less) valuable.  I dunno. Seems like there is no win-win situation here for CGC and at best it’s win-lose for collectors.  Maybe if the database was just a collection of creator/signature names that listed how many times their names appear on a book, not what specific books they appear on per se. 

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "this."

Are you talking about the grassroots "database?"  I'm sure it is good idea, because more accurate information is better than less accurate information.  I'm not sure it will get off the ground, and I'm not sure that we will end up with anything that anyone would want to rely upon. So it may end up being fruitless, that is for sure.

CGC isn't going to do anything. This lack of information has never hurt their business.

And it really only relates to books that are (or were) perceived as scarce and were subject to few signing opportunities.

This database is not really about how many JSC Gen 13 books or Capullo/Snyder Batmans are out there.  Those trade often enough and the creators are still accessible so more can be produced.

It is more about Byrne, Frazetta, Koike, certain celebrities etc. where there is a way to get to a really good number even if it is only a close estimation from the sources of the material - so people can say, "well there were somewhere between 100 and 150 total Byrne books done, I know the scarcity, and now I can decide how much I want one, knowing there are only that many out there."

I will say that your position is logical if what you want is a completely accurate, to the numbers account of how many sigs per creator WERE done.  Since I'm not sure that is possible, the grassroots database becomes an alternative, and the crux of the issue will be, is the information trustworthy and worthwhile. 

 

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9 hours ago, RadiantGraphix said:

Seems like there is no win-win situation

What is a "no win-win situation"...?

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7 hours ago, seanfingh said:

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "this."

Are you talking about the grassroots "database?" 

Yes, that is what I meant by "this" ... and I like the idea of a "loose" database format where we aren't so much concerned about the exact details of which creator signed which specific book and on what date.  I like a sort of "verified tally" of how many CGC SS Frazetta slabs exits, how many George Lucas slabs are out there... etc.  I could be tracked with slab numbers so if people wanted to click on a number and get the census info (a la GPA's format), then that sounds best.  I would recommend teaming up with an existing service like MySlabbedComics to add a section to the site where there is a name tracking database, or something along those lines.  People could add their slabs and put the information in themselves, OR other users could tag a slab with specific creator information if the user didn't enter it.  They already have the site and a TON of resources to make it happen.

 

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4 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

What is a "no win-win situation"...?

Don't be obtuse... the two sides in this discussion would have been the collectors and CGC (or even a dealer).  A "no win-win situation" would have been that because of this database information collectors would get smacked with silly rationale from dealers saying "there are only 10 copies of this book with XYZ's signature so there is a premium up-charge for rarity" (like some already do with random non-keys that are the "only three other SS on the census") and CGC having to add extra work to their grading process and maintain an entirely new database section or have to work through the millions of previously graded slabs to create said database in the first place.

I think the grassroots campaign is the only option and even it would be highly inaccurate due to a general lack of consistent participation.

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1 hour ago, RadiantGraphix said:

Don't be obtuse... the two sides in this discussion would have been the collectors and CGC (or even a dealer).  A "no win-win situation" would have been that because of this database information collectors would get smacked with silly rationale from dealers saying "there are only 10 copies of this book with XYZ's signature so there is a premium up-charge for rarity" (like some already do with random non-keys that are the "only three other SS on the census") and CGC having to add extra work to their grading process and maintain an entirely new database section or have to work through the millions of previously graded slabs to create said database in the first place.

I think the grassroots campaign is the only option and even it would be highly inaccurate due to a general lack of consistent participation.

Don't be rude. I asked you what you meant, because there's no such phrase as a "no win-win situation." I thought you might have meant something different, but no...you just made something up. For future reference, it's simply "no win."

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This is something of a white whale for us SS guys. I'd love to contribute where I can. The "collector" knows a ton, alexH, man, it would be great to get this off the ground. I've personally always wondered how many Eisner's were ever done......

Edited by Harley Troy
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