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Modern Keys...a list?
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Started by billbrown7080,

196 posts in this topic

billbrown7080

billbrown7080

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15 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

That's not how "keys" work.

Comic book keys are not relative to comic book movies.

I think you may be confusing The Level at which I'm calling a Comic a key...

 

I'm in no way trying to say a comic like Avengers #9(v. 4) is a HUGE Key...

But The facts are indisputable that book is now going to be a desirable copy from now, People are actively LOOKING for it and trying to buy it to add it to their collection of KEYS.

You may not consider it a major Key, I dont either...

But Its now A Key/desirable comic and Its Increased in Value drastically as a direct result of the movie Endgame,

Avengers Endgame Literally just broke every box office record there is almost....Its got a very good chance of becoming the ALL TIME highest grossing film, The film is universally loved and Praised....The Point is, Avengers Endgame is going to be an ICONIC movie decades for now...Its not just another Comic books movie or movie....

Avengers #9 has now become intertwined with that movie now and forever...

 

I also feel like were arguing over the wrong thing, because I do completely understand what you mean by "you dont consider them keys"...I get that the books I Mentioned above are nowhere near The KEY Issues like ASM 300 or Major Keys...I consider them Small Keys Because They have increased in Value and are comics that feature Specific Events that have made them desirable...If you want to just considered them "Hot" or "Increased in Value" thats fine...

what I was really responding to was your statement that " "Movies do not determine "key" comics"

I truly just see no way you could come to that conclusion and was hoping you could explain it to me....

again I could name DOZENS of comics that have become very desirable comics and drastically increased in Value SOLELY because of Movies...

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what your saying..

are you denying that Movies have NOT resulted in Many Comics becoming drastically more Desirable and Valuable ..

Or are you simply just saying that DOESNT make them keys...

again I disagree, but I could at least understand where you coming from If your simply saying these comics may have become HOT from movies and Increased in Value but that doesnt make them KEYS...

But I truly dont no where to go if your trying to say Movies havent caused certain/specific comics to increase in Value and become extremely desirable that many people buy to ADD to their KEYS

 

 

 

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billbrown7080

billbrown7080

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13 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

You have the same problem that many others have: you conflate being hot and/or valuable with being key.

Value doesn't make keys. "Hot" and "rare" and "key" are not synonyms.

No I just think you are taking offense to MAJOR Keys...

 

I completely understand and get where your coming from...I'm in no way trying to say any of these comics are Major Keys...

But Most of the comics I listed havent just Increased in Value and become hot for NO REASON....

The reason they have become hot is because Specific Events happen in The comics that are of Significance that Make them KEYS...

 

again, Avengers #9 Isnt even 1/10th the Key something like ASM 300 is...Theres a huge difference there that I'm in no way denying...

But Avengers #9 is ONLY HOT and Value because it now feature a Key Moment or Significant Event....The cover alone is Now Significant and It now features An Event that Is going to be forever tied to The Eventual HIGHEST grossing film of all time that just broke almost ever major box office record....

In The future Oversteet Guide's, that book will now be "Noted" for "Stark Wielding the Infinity/Nano Gauntlet"

again SMALL Key...but more than HOT....Its hot because its now forever linked to Endgame...Its Hot because Key Events happen in The Book.

 

Basically though I do completely understand where you and others are coming from...

 

In fact for me this could easily be an "Opinion" based scenario where theres no wrong answer...I completely understand why you or anyone else wouldnt consider them Keys and would just consider them Hot....But I also think you should at least understand why I and Others call them Keys or Small/Minor Keys...

 

 

 

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

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1 hour ago, billbrown7080 said:

I think you may be confusing The Level at which I'm calling a Comic a key...

 

I'm in no way trying to say a comic like Avengers #9(v. 4) is a HUGE Key...

But The facts are indisputable that book is now going to be a desirable copy from now, People are actively LOOKING for it and trying to buy it to add it to their collection of KEYS.

You may not consider it a major Key, I dont either...

But Its now A Key/desirable comic and Its Increased in Value drastically as a direct result of the movie Endgame,

Avengers Endgame Literally just broke every box office record there is almost....Its got a very good chance of becoming the ALL TIME highest grossing film, The film is universally loved and Praised....The Point is, Avengers Endgame is going to be an ICONIC movie decades for now...Its not just another Comic books movie or movie....

Avengers #9 has now become intertwined with that movie now and forever...

 

I also feel like were arguing over the wrong thing, because I do completely understand what you mean by "you dont consider them keys"...I get that the books I Mentioned above are nowhere near The KEY Issues like ASM 300 or Major Keys...I consider them Small Keys Because They have increased in Value and are comics that feature Specific Events that have made them desirable...If you want to just considered them "Hot" or "Increased in Value" thats fine...

what I was really responding to was your statement that " "Movies do not determine "key" comics"

I truly just see no way you could come to that conclusion and was hoping you could explain it to me....

again I could name DOZENS of comics that have become very desirable comics and drastically increased in Value SOLELY because of Movies...

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what your saying..

are you denying that Movies have NOT resulted in Many Comics becoming drastically more Desirable and Valuable ..

Or are you simply just saying that DOESNT make them keys...

again I disagree, but I could at least understand where you coming from If your simply saying these comics may have become HOT from movies and Increased in Value but that doesnt make them KEYS...

But I truly dont no where to go if your trying to say Movies havent caused certain/specific comics to increase in Value and become extremely desirable that many people buy to ADD to their KEYS

 

 

 

A key is a key is a key.

Movies do not determine keys.

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

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11 hours ago, speedcake said:

Dang, is it necessary to give OP such a hard time?

Also, OP I would sell every last one of those moderns while they are hot. 

Idk if anyone is intending on giving the OP "a hard time". I would infer a positive tone when reading comments.

When you argue something that is incorrect, I find it necessary to combat that with the truth, though.

Not sure if you were referring to me in this comment. Movies just do not create keys. They can increase comic values, but they don't magically turn a comic into a "key" of any kind. Avengers Vol. 4 #12 is expensive right now. It's not a key in any way, shape, or form.

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Hollywood1892

Hollywood1892

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3 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

Idk if anyone is intending on giving the OP "a hard time". I would infer a positive tone when reading comments.

When you argue something that is incorrect, I find it necessary to combat that with the truth, though.

Not sure if you were referring to me in this comment. Movies just do not create keys. They can increase comic values, but they don't magically turn a comic into a "key" of any kind. Avengers Vol. 4 #12 is expensive right now. It's not a key in any way, shape, or form.

I agree with you here.

Movies do not create keys they may bump scarce comics like Eternals and Shazam because they give otherwise comic book collecting or lack thereof a picture of what's out there,otherwise new avengers 11 and 27 would have skyrocketed after Endgame.

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

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1 minute ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I agree with you here.

Movies do not create keys they may bump scarce comics like Eternals and Shazam because they give otherwise comic book collecting or lack thereof a picture of what's out there,otherwise new avengers 11 and 27 would have skyrocketed after Endgame.

Those comics aren't "scarce" and scarcity doesn't really matter.

As has been shown, there are sometimes people with dozens of copies of a comic. They're worth whatever the market offers - regardless of print runs or sales numbers.

I don't know why someone would even pay $50 for Avengers #12 considering that it has almost literally nothing to do with Endgame.

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Hollywood1892

Hollywood1892

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3 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

Those comics aren't "scarce" and scarcity doesn't really matter.

As has been shown, there are sometimes people with dozens of copies of a comic. They're worth whatever the market offers - regardless of print runs or sales numbers.

I don't know why someone would even pay $50 for Avengers #12 considering that it has almost literally nothing to do with Endgame.

New Avengers 11,first appearance of Ronin,Hawkeye was Ronin in Avengers Endgame. Movies dont create keys!

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shadroch

shadroch

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13 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

So one-shots can't be key? Only a few early ASMs are key because some of the keys are worth more than others? A random Batman appearance in a third-tier title is key?

 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/key In which definition is value mentioned?

 

OPG-Key.jpg.669740c73d5dbb5d07816f8656e98d73.jpg

As generally irrelevant as it now is, I guess the OPG just forgot to mention value as well.

 Don't you think books featuring" other important features considered especially important to collectors fits the description?

If people want Foreskin Man #13 because it's the first appearance of the Shmo, how does that not fit the description you posted.  

Evidently, we have different opinions on what key means. To me, and most collectors of my generation, a key is a book in a run that is essential to having  in your collection.

ASM 129 didn't outsell ASM 128 or 130. There is no reason for #129 to sell more. In fact, it took years to break out. It got expensive when more collectors felt it was more important then the ones around it.

I've never collected Wonder Woman.  If I started today, I'd look at a price guide, find the ten books that are the most valuable in the run and start with them. Thus the term "key". 

Others might not look at value at all and instead look for the ten most important events in WWs history and buy those instead. Is it a coincidence that each of us will end up with a mostly identical batch of books.

Ten years ago, or so, Tales to Astonish 13 was a run of the mill BEM  book,bulk listed in Overstreet. No more important than its neighbors. If someone asked me which prefers TTAs should they buy, I wouldn't have suggested it. Now, it is a must have. How is that not a key book and the demand is there because of a money.

If you want to say movies simply create hot books, so be it.

I'd much rather discuss ways that Captain Marvel Junior can introduce himself to people.

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shadroch

shadroch

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25 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

Yes.

Really? When was it first broken out in Overstreet? More importantly, when did it first make the jump from being in the run of the mill books displayed in boxes and make it to dealers walls?  Groot came out in 1962.  Was it a wall book in 1972? 1982? 1992? 2002? Movie hype comes along and suddenly everyone wants one. My beater copy that somebody had trimmed to eliminate marvel chipping and I graded a pathetic plus suddenly sells for $50.

It could be we just define key differently.  A book in demand is a key. A key sells for more than its brethren. So a book that sells for more than its brethren is a key. Simple roadmap to successful collecting. Your roadmap may follow a different path.  That doesn't make either of them the wrong way.

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

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1 minute ago, shadroch said:

Really? When was it first broken out in Overstreet? More importantly, when did it first make the jump from being in the run of the mill books displayed in boxes and make it to dealers walls?  Groot came out in 1962.  Was it a wall book in 1972? 1982? 1992? 2002? Movie hype comes along and suddenly everyone wants one. My beater copy that somebody had trimmed to eliminate marvel chipping and I graded a pathetic plus suddenly sells for $50.

It could be we just define key differently.  A book in demand is a key. A key sells for more than its brethren. So a book that sells for more than its brethren is a key. Simple roadmap to successful collecting. Your roadmap may follow a different path.  That doesn't make either of them the wrong way.

1st appearances are keys, yes?

A book in-demand isn't a key. It's just a "book in-demand".

Spawn #1 is a key, no matter how "in-demand" it is or how inexpensive it is.

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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

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3 hours ago, shadroch said:

I've never collected Wonder Woman.  If I started today, I'd look at a price guide, find the ten books that are the most valuable in the run and start with them. Thus the term "key".

Others might not look at value at all and instead look for the ten most important events in WWs history and buy those instead. Is it a coincidence that each of us will end up with a mostly identical batch of books.

Yes, keys are likely to be worth more than other issues. Not because value makes keys, but rather that important books are likely to have higher demand, which will increase their value. However, there are other things that also increase demand that have nothing to do with the "key" status of a book.

3 hours ago, shadroch said:

Ten years ago, or so, Tales to Astonish 13 was a run of the mill BEM  book,bulk listed in Overstreet. No more important than its neighbors. If someone asked me which prefers TTAs should they buy, I wouldn't have suggested it. Now, it is a must have. How is that not a key book and the demand is there because of a money.

Groot was a basically irrelevant piece of Marvel history, with only 1 real appearance in 50(ish) years. Then some writer brought him back (or, arguably, used the basic concept for a new character with the same name), put him with a new team with another old name, and then a movie was made using that group.

 

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Hollywood1892

Hollywood1892

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9 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Yes, keys are likely to be worth more than other issues. Not because value makes keys, but rather that important books are likely to have higher demand, which will increase their value. However, there are other things that also increase demand that have nothing to do with the "key" status of a book.

Groot was a basically irrelevant piece of Marvel history, with only 1 real appearance in 50(ish) years. Then some writer brought him back (or, arguably, used the basic concept for a new character with the same name), put him with a new team with another old name, and then a movie was made using that group.

 

I agree because fantastic 4 49 is far more valuable than fantastic 4 48 and 48 is first appearance of...silver surfer and Galactus

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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

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7 hours ago, billbrown7080 said:

No I just think you are taking offense to MAJOR Keys...

 

I completely understand and get where your coming from...I'm in no way trying to say any of these comics are Major Keys...

But Most of the comics I listed havent just Increased in Value and become hot for NO REASON....

The reason they have become hot is because Specific Events happen in The comics that are of Significance that Make them KEYS...

 

again, Avengers #9 Isnt even 1/10th the Key something like ASM 300 is...Theres a huge difference there that I'm in no way denying...

But Avengers #9 is ONLY HOT and Value because it now feature a Key Moment or Significant Event....The cover alone is Now Significant and It now features An Event that Is going to be forever tied to The Eventual HIGHEST grossing film of all time that just broke almost ever major box office record....

In The future Oversteet Guide's, that book will now be "Noted" for "Stark Wielding the Infinity/Nano Gauntlet"

again SMALL Key...but more than HOT....Its hot because its now forever linked to Endgame...Its Hot because Key Events happen in The Book.

 

Basically though I do completely understand where you and others are coming from...

 

In fact for me this could easily be an "Opinion" based scenario where theres no wrong answer...I completely understand why you or anyone else wouldnt consider them Keys and would just consider them Hot....But I also think you should at least understand why I and Others call them Keys or Small/Minor Keys...

 

 

:blahblah:

Keys are important books. Being (very) loosely related to a popular movie doesn't make a book important, just temporarily popular.

I would never argue about major/minor keys because that's a B.S. distinction. You would need a spectrum to define the importance of a book, not a binary classification. And Avengers (v.58253) #9 is nowhere to be seen anywhere near that spectrum.

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