Spider-Man Noir #1 Difference?
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Hey all,

I purchased a Spider-Man Noir #1 today from MyComicShop.

Then i went on Ebay to check out some more to see the rough price of more and noticed that A LOT of them do not say 1st Appearance of Spider-Man Noir and the other half does.

I am glad the one i bought does say 1st Appearance of Spider-Man Noir. But what the deal here?

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CGC's issue notes are never comprehensive and are subject to change (usually addition) when they feel it's appropriate. This is especially true for first appearances of minor, flash-in-the-pan characters.

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Think of it as the evolution of the information on the label. As time goes by, different label information can be added (or taken away). And sometimes there will actually be two different entries for the same book in the database. In this case, what probably happened is the book originally just had the art comments, and then one of the graders entered the key comment in later (sometimes years later!) There are many examples of this happening; just take a look at the sparse information on some of those original labels. It's definitely a work in progress...  

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10 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

CGC's issue notes are never comprehensive and are subject to change (usually addition) when they feel it's appropriate. This is especially true for first appearances of minor, flash-in-the-pan characters.

This.

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On 5/16/2019 at 9:41 PM, Lazyboy said:

CGC's issue notes are never comprehensive and are subject to change (usually addition) when they feel it's appropriate. This is especially true for first appearances of minor, flash-in-the-pan characters.

They also did it on Forever people 1 in a couple cases.,Which begs the question,who is final authority of FA and what does that mean for your graded copies of FA's?

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59 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

They also did it on Forever people 1 in a couple cases.,Which begs the question,who is final authority of FA and what does that mean for your graded copies of FA's?

There is none. Everything is subjective.

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On 5/16/2019 at 10:19 PM, The Lions Den said:

Think of it as the evolution of the information on the label. As time goes by, different label information can be added (or taken away). And sometimes there will actually be two different entries for the same book in the database. In this case, what probably happened is the book originally just had the art comments, and then one of the graders entered the key comment in later (sometimes years later!) There are many examples of this happening; just take a look at the sparse information on some of those original labels. It's definitely a work in progress...  

I agree with that!

But with any great innovator,like CGC,arguably,they sometimes get tunnel vision and they think they are far superior to the people investing in their product. 

You saw it with the arrogance of Steve Jobs "We tell people what they want"

For all intents and purposes,Apple should be completely bankrupt,none of their products are compatible with main stream technology.

I forward my argument in this regard to the book by Thomas Friedmann title

"The Lexus and the Olive Tree"

Yes it's a beautiful product, but it goes against the herd.And products that go against the herd generally get run over.

Apple in this regard is an anomaly.

CGC evolves an already great product (comics) but if they themselves are not constantly evolving and at the same time being absolute in what many consider an "Expert Opinion" than people will just return to buying strictly raw,which I dont think will happen,but the problem that we are seeing now is a confused opinion of price setting.

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7 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

1. But with any great innovator,like CGC,arguably,they sometimes get tunnel vision and they think they are far superior to the people investing in their product. 

2. You saw it with the arrogance of Steve Jobs "We tell people what they want"

3. For all intents and purposes,Apple should be completely bankrupt,none of their products are compatible with main stream technology.

I forward my argument in this regard to the book by Thomas Friedmann title

"The Lexus and the Olive Tree"

4. Yes it's a beautiful product, but it goes against the herd.And products that go against the herd generally get run over.

Apple in this regard is an anomaly.

5. CGC evolves an already great product (comics) but if they themselves are not constantly evolving and at the same time being absolute in what many consider an "Expert Opinion" than people will just return to buying strictly raw,which I dont think will happen,but the problem that we are seeing now is a confused opinion of price setting.

1. Since when?

2. Is that a quote from the movies that are mostly fabricated dialogue and events..?

3. Apple products are compatible with the majority of technology...

4. Apple phones are the herd...

5. CGC makes transparent efforts to improve a lot. They are in no way, shape or form "absolute". CGC is an independent third-party unbiased comic evaluation brand. If you buy the book and not the label you will not be "confused" about pricing. CGC's services are valuable because of their "guarantee" for their products. Multiple unbiased graders, restoration check, Signature Series, etc.

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3 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

1. Since when?

2. Is that a quote from the movies that are mostly fabricated dialogue and events..?

3. Apple products are compatible with the majority of technology...

4. Apple phones are the herd...

5. CGC makes transparent efforts to improve a lot. They are in no way, shape or form "absolute". CGC is an independent third-party unbiased comic evaluation brand. If you buy the book and not the label you will not be "confused" about pricing. CGC's services are valuable because of their "guarantee" for their products. Multiple unbiased graders, restoration check, Signature Series, etc.

1. Since people follow their labels. The unfortunate thing too is that people are grading their comics and selling them at FMV CHC prices when they haven't even been slabbed.

2. No,I think he actually said that,along with "Jeeves,can you draw me a bath?"

3,4,5

Dont feel like doing any research to prove my point.

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Just now, Hollywood1892 said:

1. Since people follow their labels. The unfortunate thing too is that people are grading their comics and selling them at FMV CHC prices when they haven't even been slabbed.

2. No,I think he actually said that,along with "Jeeves,can you draw me a bath?"

3,4,5

Dont feel like doing any research to prove my point.

1. That makes literally no sense. There's nothing to substantiate the allegation that CGC thinks themselves above anyone else... They also have literally nothing to do with pricing of their poducts on the aftermarket or raw market values.

I can list a raw Spawn #1 for $1,000. No one's going to buy it. CGC has nothing to do with FMV or delusional asking prices. People speak with their wallets. CGC has nothing to do with it.

I'll accept your concession on every other point I retorted to.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

1. That makes literally no sense. There's nothing to substantiate the allegation that CGC thinks themselves above anyone else... They also have literally nothing to do with pricing of their poducts on the aftermarket or raw market values.

I can list a raw Spawn #1 for $1,000. No one's going to buy it. CGC has nothing to do with FMV or delusional asking prices. People speak with their wallets. CGC has nothing to do with it.

I'll accept your concession on every other point I retorted to.

Okay,but than how do we value our comics? At least overstreet like Beckett was to sports cards, was the absolute entity in comic pricing (Raw) how come they dont start making an evaluation on slabbed comics. Ie

CGC 9.8 (of something) $125.00

CBCS 9.8 (of said comic) $75.00

PGX 9.8 $25.00

And if they dont consider themselves so elite (CGC) than why are they offering customers a discount to slab other companies already graded products...that is called monopoly. And proves my point about believing they are superior,and I as a collector believe the same,to other companies. Also other companies are starting to concede their position in the grading community. If PGX came along and said we will give you a 90% discount on all your already graded CGC products,than you would laugh your head off.

Edited by Hollywood1892
Incomplete

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16 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Okay,but than how do we value our comics? At least overstreet like Beckett was to sports cards, was the absolute entity in comic pricing (Raw) how come they dont start making an evaluation on slabbed comics.

Overstreet was great 30 years ago, but the Guide has been a joke for a long time now. The annual format is absurd in today's market, but even that doesn't explain how they have been and are many years behind the market on lots of books.

You want them to do more when they can't even do properly what they're doing now?

22 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

And if they dont consider themselves so elite (CGC) than why are they offering customers a discount to slab other companies already graded products...that is called monopoly an attempt to gain more business.

Fixed.

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32 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Okay,but than how do we value our comics? At least overstreet like Beckett was to sports cards, was the absolute entity in comic pricing (Raw) how come they dont start making an evaluation on slabbed comics. Ie

CGC 9.8 (of something) $125.00

CBCS 9.8 (of said comic) $75.00

PGX 9.8 $25.00

And if they dont consider themselves so elite (CGC) than why are they offering customers a discount to slab other companies already graded products...that is called monopoly. And proves my point about believing they are superior,and I as a collector believe the same,to other companies. Also other companies are starting to concede their position in the grading community. If PGX came along and said we will give you a 90% discount on all your already graded CGC products,than you would laugh your head off.

I don't think you know the definition of "absolute".

CGC is a business. It would be bad business to not entice customers to switch products. Common sense here, dude.

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11 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

I don't think you know the definition of "absolute".

CGC is a business. It would be bad business to not entice customers to switch products. Common sense here, dude.

I agree with that.

But my main concern is the evaluation of comic books in today's market.

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Just now, Hollywood1892 said:

I agree with that.

But my main concern is the evaluation of comic books in today's market.

CGC provides a service that evaluates the condition of comics. They don't create supply and demand of products and services that they don't provide. Idk what your concern is. They can't magically control market prices of comics.

Maybe ask your friends Gabe and Swampi how spec "investing" is impacting the comic collecting economy.

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If you wanna read comics, then read comics. I'm buying trade paperbacks, etc, all the time.

If you don't wanna pay for encapsulated comics, then don't. Complaining isn't going to change anything.

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5 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

If you wanna read comics, then read comics. I'm buying trade paperbacks, etc, all the time.

If you don't wanna pay for encapsulated comics, then don't. Complaining isn't going to change anything.

Your being argumentative, all I am saying is their should be a price guide to slabbed comics. I'm not engaging in traditional hobbyists versus collectors or spec buyers, but nobody is gonna pay $500.00 for a comic they just want to read...well maybe I'm overgeneralizing,few people will pay that for something they just want to read.

People who spend that type of money for first print books arent planning on reading that copy.

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3 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Your being argumentative, all I am saying is their should be a price guide to slabbed comics. I'm not engaging in traditional hobbyists versus collectors or spec buyers, but nobody is gonna pay $500.00 for a comic they just want to read...well maybe I'm overgeneralizing,few people will pay that for something they just want to read.

People who spend that type of money for first print books arent planning on reading that copy.

You're presenting an argument... Assuming I'm being argumentative in a debate is, well... You figure it out...

I'm just letting you know that your point and your outlook are incorrect.

Why do you think they're outdated? Price guides haven't worked since the turn of the century.

I spend money on First Print books, and yes, I read them. So, wrong again.

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Just now, TwoPiece said:

You're presenting an argument... Assuming I'm being argumentative in a debate is, well... You figure it out...

I'm just letting you know that your point and your outlook are incorrect.

Why do you think they're outdated? Price guides haven't worked since the turn of the century.

I spend money on First Print books, and yes, I read them. So, wrong again.

That's you...you know you can get the fiftieth printing of the same book and read it in its entirety,why spend so much? Money doesn't grow on trees.

I think there needs to be some policing when it comes to the valuation of products before the little man or the common collector is pushed out.

Now I  understand we live in a three tier class system and I am not preaching communism,but if there was a policing system in place than you eouldnt see these comics being priced right out of peoples budgets.

It's understandable in the modern day variant comic book industry that we live in that people are going to like different t covers on the same comic,but there is such a variance in price that it becomes quite ridicoulous to think that people arent buying for value.

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Just now, Hollywood1892 said:

That's you...you know you can get the fiftieth printing of the same book and read it in its entirety,why spend so much? Money doesn't grow on trees.

I think there needs to be some policing when it comes to the valuation of products before the little man or the common collector is pushed out.

Now I  understand we live in a three tier class system and I am not preaching communism,but if there was a policing system in place than you eouldnt see these comics being priced right out of peoples budgets.

It's understandable in the modern day variant comic book industry that we live in that people are going to like different t covers on the same comic,but there is such a variance in price that it becomes quite ridicoulous to think that people arent buying for value.

Why would I want 2 copies of the same book..?

It's a free market economy. Your suggestion is asinine. That's the nicest way I can put it. The "common collector" in playing cards doesn't buy Lotrek decks, just as the "common collector" in comics doesn't buy Golden Age first appearances. It's the way collecting works. There is a set supply and the smaller the supply the more it costs. With the ever-expanding number of collectors prices are only going to go up. There is no policing it. It won't happen.

You know what "policing" did for MtG? Wizards of the Coast created the Reserved List, never to print cards again, and prices continue to skyrocket. A little different, because they print the cards themselves, but "collecting police" would only serve collectors, and guess what collectors want? Valuable collectibles! It wouldn't work the way you think it would. Quite the opposite.

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