Pressing and Microchamber Paper 1 1

[VintageComics]

5 hours ago, mrc said:

.....if a piece of paper were, for example left in the centre pages, I doubt very much it would have any effect on the resultant press job?  

It would leave an indentation on the surrounding pages.

3 hours ago, mrc said:

I actually can't believe a friend is asking this question

I think you're missing his sarcasm.

[Bejack3]

37 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

It would leave an indentation on the surrounding pages.

I think you're missing his sarcasm.

If the foreign paper inside the book was oversized and sticking out of the pages then there would be nothing to indent. Or even if the foreign paper was nearly the same size as the book's interior pages. And as a previous poster mentioned, inserts can do the same damage. My presser mentioned a book with a well known insert and said he had a way to handle that.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Bejack3

[VintageComics]

7 minutes ago, Bejack3 said:

43 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

It would leave an indentation on the surrounding pages.

I think you're missing his sarcasm.

If the foreign paper inside the book was oversized and sticking out of the pages then there would be nothing to indent. Or even if the foreign paper was nearly the same size as the book's interior pages. And as a previous poster mentioned, inserts can do the same damage. My presser mentioned a book with a well known insert and said he had a way to handle that.

I really don't know how to reply to this. I'm not sure if you're serious or just pulling my leg at this point.

I guess you should just leave your microchamber paper inside the book then when you send them off to get pressed if it doesn't bother you.

 

 

[VintageComics]

3 hours ago, Bejack3 said:

And as a previous poster mentioned, inserts can do the same damage. My presser mentioned a book with a well known insert and said he had a way to handle that.

Sorry, I missed this edit even though I quoted it.

Yes, true. But inserts are supposed to be in the comics at the time of publication. Anything that is foreign to the book at time of publication is not.

Furthermore, you are introducing another variable for the presser to deal with that they shouldn't.

If I was a presser and pressing your books I would not be leaving microchamber paper in a book. Into the recycling bin they would go.

I think most people will agree that leaving things in books that don't belong, while getting them pressed is not a good idea.

[Ride the Tiger]

What about Amazing Spider-Man #238? If you press the book with tattoos will it leave an indentation?

[mrc]

36 minutes ago, Ride the Tiger said:

What about Amazing Spider-Man #238? If you press the book with tattoos will it leave an indentation?

I suppose you could get some paper or card the same thickness as the tattoo insert and do a cutout. Then insert the sheet around the tattoo insert so the whole page is even?  

[Naphtha]

11 hours ago, VintageComics said:

I really don't know how to reply to this. I'm not sure if you're serious or just pulling my leg at this point.

I guess you should just leave your microchamber paper inside the book then when you send them off to get pressed if it doesn't bother you.

 

 

I've actually thought about this and never found an answer. I think my issue with pressing comes from the tanning it causes to front and back covers. This is especially evident in white cover issues (avengers 4, DD1, X-men 1, etc...). The idea of placing a barrier between the interior pages and front cover to keep acid transfer to a minimum is the entire reason I would consider this. I have yet to hear anything conclusive, but I agree, adding extra variables to an already delicate process seems like it could only increase potential mistakes.

 

[VintageComics]

3 hours ago, MadJimJaspers said:

I think my issue with pressing comes from the tanning it causes to front and back covers. This is especially evident in white cover issues (avengers 4, DD1, X-men 1, etc...). The idea of placing a barrier between the interior pages and front cover to keep acid transfer to a minimum is the entire reason I would consider this. I have yet to hear anything conclusive,

Pressing (properly, that is) doesn't cause tanning to covers.

If those covers are tanned, they are tanned because they were improperly stored.

And pressing doesn't cause acid transfer.

You don't (and SHOULD NOT) use microchamber paper when pressing a book.

I find it hard to believe that it needs to be even discussed.

[Naphtha]

5 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Pressing (properly, that is) doesn't cause tanning to covers.

If those covers are tanned, they are tanned because they were improperly stored.

And pressing doesn't cause acid transfer.

You don't (and SHOULD NOT) use microchamber paper when pressing a book.

I find it hard to believe that it needs to be even discussed.

How? Pressing isnt common knowledge.

Also, pressing does cause tanning. And I use the word "tanning" to mean brown staining of an otherwise white cover. Look at all the GSX1 issues that have returned with horriblly stained covers. 

I have literally submitted books that have returned damaged. Nothing to do with storage.

Interior pages contain moisture. When high pressure is placed on a front cover and smashed against the interior pages, that moisture is transferred onto the front cover. It is then dried and creates staining. Many examples of this currently in the sales thread.

[VintageComics]

2 hours ago, MadJimJaspers said:

How? Pressing isnt common knowledge.

Also, pressing does cause tanning. And I use the word "tanning" to mean brown staining of an otherwise white cover. Look at all the GSX1 issues that have returned with horriblly stained covers. 

I have literally submitted books that have returned damaged. Nothing to do with storage.

Interior pages contain moisture. When high pressure is placed on a front cover and smashed against the interior pages, that moisture is transferred onto the front cover. It is then dried and creates staining. Many examples of this currently in the sales thread.

If someone is smashing, staining and damaging your books why do you use them?

I'll draw an analogy to driving.

Driving causes accidents but not all driving ends up in an accident.

If a driver ends up in an accident they aren't doing it correctly.

The person you are using isn't pressing books correctly. They're destroying them.

[Naphtha]

Here are some examples:

H

 

[VintageComics]

You would need before and after pictures to prove that it was done by poor pressing.

Those books look like normal vintage comics to me (pressed or unpressed)

 

[Naphtha]

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

You would need before and after pictures to prove that it was done by poor pressing.

Those books look like normal vintage comics to me (pressed or unpressed)

 

Hardly normal. Here's normal:

[VintageComics]

1 hour ago, MadJimJaspers said:

3 hours ago, VintageComics said:

You would need before and after pictures to prove that it was done by poor pressing.

Those books look like normal vintage comics to me (pressed or unpressed)

 

Hardly normal. Here's normal:

Those pictures don't prove anything.

The only thing they show is different comic books with scans and pictures taken by different devices.

In order to show that comics have been damaged with pressing you'd need before and after pictures taken by the same camera or scanner.

You can't compare different books to each other and you can't even compare the same book with images taken by different devices.

I'm sorry, but I've had many books pressed (as have many others on this forum) and have not had any of the experiences you have had. And after many years, I've never heard anyone else complain about this either.

Edited May 27, 2019 by VintageComics

[Naphtha]

23 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I'm sorry, but I've had many books pressed (as have many others on this forum) and have not had any of the experiences you have had. And after many years, I've never heard anyone else complain about this either.

One of those books should look familiar.

[october]

On 5/26/2019 at 8:02 AM, MadJimJaspers said:

How? Pressing isnt common knowledge.

Also, pressing does cause tanning. And I use the word "tanning" to mean brown staining of an otherwise white cover. Look at all the GSX1 issues that have returned with horriblly stained covers. 

I have literally submitted books that have returned damaged. Nothing to do with storage.

Interior pages contain moisture. When high pressure is placed on a front cover and smashed against the interior pages, that moisture is transferred onto the front cover. It is then dried and creates staining. Many examples of this currently in the sales thread.

Tanning is not staining.

The examples you gave have transfer staining from the acid in the interior pages. It's a normally occuring process. I suppose it could happen from improper pressing (though I have never seen it), but the presence of it doesn't indicate anything. I have seen hundreds of books with this defect, many straight out of untouched original owner collections. 

[VintageComics]

8 hours ago, MadJimJaspers said:

One of those books should look familiar.

I recognize the Ghost Rider #1 CGC 9.4 as mine.

I still don't understand your point.

Scanner and cameras all make books look different. As close as the image might represent a live book, it's not exact.

And you have pictures of various books taken with different devices, so that alone will make every book look a little different from each other and not a direct comparison.

2nd, you don't have before and after pictures of the books USING THE SAME EQUIPMENT so again, not an apples and apples comparison.

Whatever it is you are talking about is not a product of pressing that I can see from those pictures. It's just a natural aging process.

[VintageComics]

On 5/26/2019 at 9:02 AM, MadJimJaspers said:

Also, pressing does cause tanning.

Pressing does not cause tanning. You have yet to show one example of a before and after where a pressed book causes tanning.

On 5/26/2019 at 9:02 AM, MadJimJaspers said:

Look at all the GSX1 issues that have returned with horriblly stained covers. 

I have literally submitted books that have returned damaged. Nothing to do with storage.

Interior pages contain moisture. When high pressure is placed on a front cover and smashed against the interior pages, that moisture is transferred onto the front cover. It is then dried and creates staining. Many examples of this currently in the sales thread.

What you're talking about is a 'transfer stain' that happens when the oils, over time, seep out of the interior art into the covers of the books causing that yellowish halo.

That is not tanning.

And it's not caused by pressing.

Those oil transfer stains are caused by poor quality inks coming 'apart' chemically over time and the oils starting to leach out of the inks and into surrounding paper.

It's extremely common on old comics and has been around since long before pressing was around.

It's extremely common with some publishers of 50's books and very common in the SA and BA.

[Naphtha]

9 hours ago, october said:

Tanning is not staining.

The examples you gave have transfer staining from the acid in the interior pages. It's a normally occuring process. I suppose it could happen from improper pressing (though I have never seen it), but the presence of it doesn't indicate anything. I have seen hundreds of books with this defect, many straight out of untouched original owner collections. 

Read my previous post...

[Naphtha]

50 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

Pressing does not cause tanning. You have yet to show one example of a before and after where a pressed book causes tanning.

What you're talking about is a 'transfer stain' that happens when the oils, over time, seep out of the interior art into the covers of the books causing that yellowish halo.

That is not tanning.

And it's not caused by pressing.

Those oil transfer stains are caused by poor quality inks coming 'apart' chemically over time and the oils starting to leach out of the inks and into surrounding paper.

It's extremely common on old comics and has been around since long before pressing was around.

It's extremely common with some publishers of 50's books and very common in the SA and BA.

I explained my definition of "tanning" as transfer staining. Youre just repeating what I said two pages ago. It might be common to you and your pressed issues. Every dealer might like everyone to think its common.