Why is ACTION #251 not considered the 1st appearance of SUPERGIRL? 1 1

[APDallas]

37 minutes ago, valiantman said:

The hobby could shift somewhat as a result of the continued publication of books.  Grey Hulk wasn't a separate character until decades later, so Hulk #1 is the first Hulk (and first Grey Hulk), but Hulk #2 is now the first (full) Green Hulk. There are characters which are "played by" other named characters later, multiple Robins for Batman, etc., so the first Robin (Detective #38) is already recognized differently from the first Jason Todd as Robin. Obviously the earlier one is more important, but as we've seen with Groot, the early not-very-close appearance can get more credit if the continued stories (or movies) add importance/collectibility to a character. 

Superman #123 has the first Supergirl (or Super-Girl) who isn't Kara Zor-El, but if there's more story about a series of Supergirls or Batgirls throughout publication history, it could make these first ones (even if they only existed for an issue) more important if someone collects ALL of the incarnations of a character.  This is of course a different discussion than Action #251 since that's Kara Zor-El in an advertisement, but Superman #123 is definitely the first Super-Girl, just not Kara.  If there's a whole series of Supergirls someday, or if the "wish" Super-Girl of Superman #123 is brought back, given a story, alternate universe, whatever, then Superman #123 could be more than it is. It's unlikely it would ever be more than Action #252 no matter how many "other" Supergirl stories could be told, but it does have plenty of room to grow. 

I agree completely on your points. For instance MARVEL has announced the BLACK KNIGHT is to appear. We know the BLACK KNIGHT appeared as a character when Marvel was Atlas in the 1950s then as a villain in TALES OF SUSPENSE. So which to say is the first BLACK KNIGHT. So even then what if MARVEL uses a wholly different version of BLACK KNIGHT. Are we not to consider the earlier appearances as null and void. Another example is FLASH. We know Barry Allen was FLASH until he died in Crisis. Then Wally West took over. Does that mean he is the 1st appearance of the FLASH?

[Lazyboy]

45 minutes ago, valiantman said:

 Hulk #324 was 33 years ago.

And the Marvel Universe ended over 20 years ago.  Anyway, Incredible Hulk 324 was still Banner.

[Readcomix]

29 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

And the Marvel Universe ended over 20 years ago.  Anyway, Incredible Hulk 324 was still Banner.

I know it's off topic, but I Sincerely don't know -- when did the Marvel Universe end? What was the story arc? I stopped new books after the onslaught story; a Rob Liefeld Avengers reboot was too much for me. What story resulted in a multiverse?

[Lazyboy]

2 minutes ago, Readcomix said:

I know it's off topic, but I Sincerely don't know -- when did the Marvel Universe end? What was the story arc? I stopped new books after the onslaught story; a Rob Liefeld Avengers reboot was too much for me. What story resulted in a multiverse?

Onslaught destroyed the Marvel Universe. You can argue that it was already heading that way, but as a whole, it's been a ridiculous, disorganized joke since then.

Marvel has had a multiverse for a long time. Actually, the state of Marvel since Onslaught reminds me of a story from a series that significantly used that concept (and from which the main "616" universe got its name):

 

[Readcomix]

@Lazyboy Thank you; so onslaught effects remain, in a sense (and yes I'd aagree it was heading that way). That was pretty much when I checked out; I see these 616 references and get confused. I do try to read the occasional Marvel output since, but nothing has gripped me for any length of time in a while. Of course, I've missed a lot of products and may be looking at the wrong offerings. 

Sorry to derail the topic a bit, but your "20 years" reference made me realize how long the Marvel of Silver bronze copper has been gone -- and I'm in the minority on this, but I actually started losing interest during copper, so it's a while for me (The Beyonder is probably a point of demarcation for me).

[zosocane]

Detective 39 “Clayface appears in one panel ad at the end of Batman story.”  (CGC label comment)

Detective 40 "Origin and 1st appearance of Clayface."  (CGC label comment)

Edited May 23, 2019 by zosocane

[N e r V]

I seem to remember people trying to make a case for Scooby Doos first comic book appearance being in this Saturday morning cartoons ads from the comics of the day and not in Scooby Doo #1.

 

 

Hulk #180 is one of the few legit cases of being the first appearance of a character because it’s in the story and not an ad but clearly it’s the first “full” appearance in #181 that fans want first by a mile.

 

House ads are super cool and worth owning IMO and in fact are in many cases the first “public” appearance of these new characters before their actual debuts but don’t expect the collecting field to suddenly value ad appearances over their formal introductions.

I think certain house ads deserve some premiums over surrounding issues based on that fact but that still will never make them equal to their key appearances.

To make a buck though I’m sure people won’t quit trying to sell house ads as first appearances and there never seems to be a shortage of greed or unsuspecting buyers of such things.

Good luck to both!

FYI, the house ad for Supergirl is super sweet and should accompany every collectors Action #252 IMO....

[DanCooper]

Due to the significance of the character in the Action 251 preview ad, CGC should probably note the presence of the ad on the CGC label for Action 251.

I've seen nondescript books like House Of Secrets #60 have things like "Full page ad for Metal Men #1" noted on the CGC label.

Action 251 would seem to warrant a similar CGC label note for the Supergirl ad for significance of the character and being part of the same series (Action)

[APDallas]

On 5/24/2019 at 6:45 AM, DanCooper said:

Due to the significance of the character in the Action 251 preview ad, CGC should probably note the presence of the ad on the CGC label for Action 251.

I've seen nondescript books like House Of Secrets #60 have things like "Full page ad for Metal Men #1" noted on the CGC label.

Action 251 would seem to warrant a similar CGC label note for the Supergirl ad for significance of the character and being part of the same series (Action)

I agree 100%

 

[rjpb]

On 5/22/2019 at 3:28 PM, Lazyboy said:

And the Marvel Universe ended over 20 years ago.  Anyway, Incredible Hulk 324 was still Banner.

For me, the Marvel Universe ended around 1974. I've read a few series since then; Miller, Bendis, Brubaker DD, Brubaker Cap, Milligan /Allred X-Force, and a few odds an ends, but don't really care about any sort of integrated "universe". The few times I've read wiki pages on Marvel characters, their histories are a mind-boggling mess. The mid-70s were also about the last time the chronology and continuity could really pretend to hold together going back to the Timely era.