Captain America #1 (CGC 9.4) 5 5

[MrBedrock]

There is a certain level of misunderstanding surrounding this book as well. 

[MrBedrock]

18 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

So, you're in the hunt then? 

Not even a thought of bidding on it. 

True story, there are very few six figure plus books that I would keep. That is an amount of money where the temptation to sell is too overwhelming.

[Mmehdy]

18 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

I don't even think it is the top Timely.  Be interesting to see what happens.

 

I love MC#1...its a great book,  but Cap has S/K, Hitler cover, more marvel movie mania, and its a better read etc....I respect MC#1...and the Paul cover is amazing but in early days of collecting fandom the only thing that held Cap#1 down was the fact that it was released in 1941...as opposed to "38 for A1 and "39 for D27/MC1. As time as passed the date of "1941" seems about as far as 1938 to. most people still alive. It doe not hurt that the Cap movies were great and money winners all the way. Now with Hitler covers being Hot...I just don't think the old ways of looking at comic book collecting apply today in 2019. Let me give you an example...Red Raven #1 that book was actually hotter in the early days of Fandom, as well as FC#10 Flash Gordon both great books and even FC#9 Donald Duck....But I will say this, trying to buy a Cap#1 from Bruce Hamilton at SDCC #2 or #3 with a guide price of I think $60...I offered $400 and was still turned down. Somebody out there is gonna get a masterpiece with this copy.....GL

Edited May 28, 2019 by Mmehdy

[buttock]

28 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

This book has a number of strikes against it. It is over-graded, the label is billboard sized, the scan is screwed up, it is apparently stolen, and the word on the street is it has an overwhelming stench of sulfur and brimstone.

It's clearly been disassembled from my viewing of the scans. 

[sacentaur]

1 hour ago, MrBedrock said:

There is a certain level of misunderstanding surrounding this book as well. 

It’s a shame that we can’t get a definitive authority like Beerbong in here to set the record straight about the San Fran Cap #1.

You know, meandering tales of his very best pals (i.e., dead celebrities he never knew), his historic presence when the collection surfaced (rivaling when he helped Moses come down from the mountain), and of course his philanthropic journey in assisting the Widow Bails reap a just reward (actually a $1.50) from her husband’s complete run of All-Star Comics.

[batman_fan]

41 minutes ago, sacentaur said:

It’s a shame that we can’t get a definitive authority like Beerbong in here to set the record straight about the San Fran Cap #1.

You know, meandering tales of his very best pals (i.e., dead celebrities he never knew), his historic presence when the collection surfaced (rivaling when he helped Moses come down from the mountain), and of course his philanthropic journey in assisting the Widow Bails reap a just reward (actually a $1.50) from her husband’s complete run of All-Star Comics.

Don't forget the endless pumping of The Adventures of Obadiah Oldbuck

[Gotham Kid]

5 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

Yep.  Your Denver looks much sharper than the SF.  

Maybe you can go back to Heritage and get them to elevate you to that empty 9.6 slot?  It seems that the grading on this book is all about relative grades, not objective grades.

Why not ? It worked for the other guy. Throw in a good whine et voilà, 9.6.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Gotham Kid

[Primetime]

3 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

This book has a number of strikes against it. It is over-graded, the label is billboard sized, the scan is screwed up, it is apparently stolen, and the word on the street is it has an overwhelming stench of sulfur and brimstone.

but it's a Timely 

[Primetime]

1 hour ago, sacentaur said:

It’s a shame that we can’t get a definitive authority like Beerbong in here to set the record straight about the San Fran Cap #1.

You know, meandering tales of his very best pals (i.e., dead celebrities he never knew), his historic presence when the collection surfaced (rivaling when he helped Moses come down from the mountain), and of course his philanthropic journey in assisting the Widow Bails reap a just reward (actually a $1.50) from her husband’s complete run of All-Star Comics.

That's quite a smoke signal Steve. The natives will be sure to see that from any part of comic land. 

[Mmehdy]

3 hours ago, sacentaur said:

It’s a shame that we can’t get a definitive authority like Beerbong in here to set the record straight about the San Fran Cap #1.

You know, meandering tales of his very best pals (i.e., dead celebrities he never knew), his historic presence when the collection surfaced (rivaling when he helped Moses come down from the mountain), and of course his philanthropic journey in assisting the Widow Bails reap a just reward (actually a $1.50) from her husband’s complete run of All-Star Comics.

He was there at the convention too..and probably saw the same stack that I did.....But he would have some helpful information on what happened down the line......the history of this book needs to be written, but it is what it is 9.4 Cap pedigree...and its a super book.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Mmehdy

[Mr bla bla]

21 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

What a fascinating, but ultimately depressing read this thread is. Putting aside the clear benefits of third party grading, there is so much that is ethically questionable, so many conflicts of interest. I'd have loved to have contributed to the debates of the past but sadly find that any attempt to revive them on these boards is met with stony silence. What was wrong then is still wrong now and shouldn't be brushed aside just because the debate has been had. If a company can manipulate a grade upwards, with hundreds of thousands of dollars potentially at stake, how can that same company be trusted to deliver the subsequent grade in an impartial manner? Especially if they can be coerced by an unhappy owner as posts in this thread have suggested. And all to a set of grading criteria that they developed in house and do not publish. Why is it tolerated?

And as for the misrepresentation of books due to scanner settings, deliberate or otherwise, isn't it about time some of the big guns offered videos of the big books? These books are worth millions, and all you get is a front and back scan? Even ebay offers 12 free photos!

This chat board is not so much the collectors society but rather the dealers society. That might explain your experience of stony silence ...

[Get Marwood & I]

23 minutes ago, Mr bla bla said:

This chat board is not so much the collectors society but rather the dealers society. That might explain your experience of stony silence ...

[Cat-Man_America]

10 hours ago, sartrexpress said:

Oh I didn’t even realize my post name had changed... lol... I started to post books years ago but then lost interest after the site had changed and for some reason it felt more time consuming... my opinion on the scan debate is that to see anything you have to see it in person .. and even then your looking through plastic...

Great to see you're still on the boards, my friend.  As you can see "David Merryweather" required revision as the moniker just wouldn't fit on one line after the forum purge.  That said, the new one works much better. 

[sfcityduck]

15 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

I just don't think the old ways of looking at comic book collecting apply today in 2019.

I think you're right.  It's a completely different game.

But, still, if this CA 1 goes for over $1M it will be only the 8th comic book to ever do so.  It would also be only the 4th issue after Action 1, D27, and AF 15, to break $1M.  And that's looking at it with reference to today's market.

Most importantly, while Action 1 and D27 are in their own top tier and have broken $1M with lesser graded copies, that AF 15 was the best copy (and the top SA comic). The best AS 8 (CGC 9.4 - next best was two 9.2s) came close to hitting $1M, as well.  

But this CA 1 (CGC 9.4) appears to be no better than the 3rd best copy of CA 1 (better CGC 9.8 and 9.4). 

So the question is:  Will the 3rd best CA 1 become the first Timely comic to break $1M?  Pushing up the auction record for Timely by almost a factor of 3x?  

It will take two motivated buyers.   It could happen.  Will some day.  Definitely if the Allentown comes up for sale.  I'd just bet the other way on this book right now.   

But, I've lost bets before.

 

[MrBedrock]

19 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

But this CA 1 (CGC 9.4) appears to be no better than the 3rd best copy of CA 1 (better CGC 9.8 and 9.4). 

So the question is:  Will the 3rd best CA 1 become the first Timely comic to break $1M?  Pushing up the auction record for Timely by almost a factor of 3x?  

 

This is super debatable...

There are opinions on both sides, some with serious biases. All of the conjecture here is based solely on scans. I have never seen either book but I have seen and own books from both pedigrees and my first assumption would be that the San Fransisco would be a better preserved copy. CGC has seen both books and gave both a 9.4. I appreciate that the Denver is a pretty book that started out as a 9.0 and is now a 9.4. I also appreciate that some feel that the SF is a 9.2 in a 9.4 holder. But to now categorize it as "appears to be no better than the 3rd best copy" is silly to me. To my eyes it looks like it is at minimum tied for the second best copy. And until I see them together I will assume that it is a better preserved book than the Denver, making it the second best copy.

[MrBedrock]

For comparison sake -

This 9.4 Denver ...

...is not as nice as this 9.4 San Fransisco...

 

[sagii]

@MrBedrock Has the 'story' on the San Francisco Pedigree ever been 'cemented' (the supposed original owner)?

Do you think this has effected the Ped in terms of sales potentials, 'status' even though it boasts some of the best copies in existence?

Do you think it could affect the Pedigree long term or the 'mystery' just ads to the lore?

(Hope i got my 'effect/affect' right )

[batman_fan]

15 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

For comparison sake -

This 9.4 Denver ...

...is not as nice as this 9.4 San Fransisco...

 

I’d take either one

[sfcityduck]

1 hour ago, MrBedrock said:

This is super debatable...

There are opinions on both sides, some with serious biases. All of the conjecture here is based solely on scans. I have never seen either book but I have seen and own books from both pedigrees and my first assumption would be that the San Fransisco would be a better preserved copy. CGC has seen both books and gave both a 9.4. I appreciate that the Denver is a pretty book that started out as a 9.0 and is now a 9.4. I also appreciate that some feel that the SF is a 9.2 in a 9.4 holder. But to now categorize it as "appears to be no better than the 3rd best copy" is silly to me. To my eyes it looks like it is at minimum tied for the second best copy. And until I see them together I will assume that it is a better preserved book than the Denver, making it the second best copy.

Your make reasonable points.  But, all we have to base an opinion upon is the scans and the CGC grades.  The page quality on the SF is ow/w and the Denver is ow, so that supports your conclusion that the SF is better "preserved" than the Denver.  But, I'm focused on the sharpness of the book (which of course is impacted by handling since the 1973 discovery, so the general "shape" of SF books is a guide not a guarantee), not the page quality.  The scans do seem to showt that the left upper and lower corners of the SF are not nearly as sharp as the Denver (and we have the owner of the Denver confirming that).  So, while I recognise that I am just voicing an opinion, I'm comfortable in that opinion based on the only evidence I have access to.  I don't think anyone is going to get to do a side by side with the Denver unless the Denver owner is in the hunt.  

But, don't get me wrong.  The SF is a beautiful book.  No shame in second or third best.  Won't get the same frenzy that the Allentown would generate, which is why I'm bearish on $1M.  

Others can reasonably disagree, such as you have done.  As I said above, I lose bets.

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

For comparison sake -

This 9.4 Denver ...

...is not as nice as this 9.4 San Fransisco...

 

Richard;

I am sure you are right when you say the CGC 9.4 SF copy is better than the CGC 9.4 Denver copy since you have both books in hand.  

Just on a cursory glance of the scans only though, the Denver looks nicer than the SF due to all of the glare that's coming off the Human Torch book.  I guess that's why scans can be a bit misleading at times without the actual books in hand.