Captain America #1 (CGC 9.4)
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8 hours ago, Primetime said:
On 5/28/2019 at 7:20 PM, dem1138 said:

Nick Marcus & Mike Manyak paid a buck for this Captain America #1 Easter weekend 1973. They blatantly lied to Dr Arnheim. A buck each for all those Timely issues they "liberated" by being liars that Sunday at Berkeleycon we hosted on the UC-Berkeley campus.

I had heard Nick and Mike paid roughly $1,000 for 60 Timelys on that day...that comes out to $16.66 per book or $98.48/book in today's money. Anybody have a 1973 OSPG? 

Of course, looking back retroactively based upon today's marketplace, it would appear the Nick and Mike made out like bandits in this deal.  :whee:

If you go back to 1973, however, it's quite possible that the wise old Doc might have been the one dancing like a crazy banana :banana:, especially if there were any mid-run or later issues of the 3 Timely titles which were probably valued in only single digit dollars at the time in the Overprice Guide.  hm

Actually, relatively much more expensive if you compare that Reilly sale to the $2,000 that the old lady managed to squeeze out of  Chuck for the 20,000 (or thereabouts) Church books. She probably thought she had fleeced that young whippersnapper of a hippie dude to pay full brand spanking new prices for what were just some old used comic books.  doh!

I am just sorry that I was not around at the time for the Doc and the old Church lady to take advantage of me like that.  lol  :takeit:

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11 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Of course, looking back retroactively based upon today's marketplace, it would appear the Nick and Mike made out like bandits in this deal.  :whee:

If you go back to 1973, however, it's quite possible that the wise old Doc might have been the one dancing like a crazy banana :banana:, especially if there were any mid-run or later issues of the 3 Timely titles which were probably valued in only single digit dollars at the time in the Overprice Guide.  hm

Actually, relatively much more expensive if you compare that Reilly sale to the $2,000 that the old lady managed to squeeze out of  Chuck for the 20,000 (or thereabouts) Church books. She probably thought she had fleeced that young whippersnapper of a hippie dude to pay full brand spanking new prices for what were just some old used comic books.  doh!

I am just sorry that I was not around at the time for the Doc and the old Church lady to take advantage of me like that.  lol  :takeit:

I believe Chuck was contacted by Edgar's son-in-law, Jerry Richardson.  He probably didn't deal with "old Church lady".  Her name was Helen. 

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21 hours ago, Crowzilla said:
23 hours ago, lou_fine said:

 

With respect to the Cap's, it looks like Cap 1 was guiding for a whopping $350 at top of guide with the Cap 2 being the only other 3-figure dollar book coming in at $150.

 

This would help explain why Mitch couldn't buy one for $400.

Also due to the fact that back in those pre-internet days and non-connected world, it was really more about having the right connections in order to even have any hope of having access to the key books.  hm

Nowadays, not so much with public auctions on an almost monthly basis where the only thing required is deep pockets and a willingness to dip into it.  :bigsmile:

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3 hours ago, nearmint said:

I believe Chuck was contacted by Edgar's son-in-law, Jerry Richardson.  He probably didn't deal with "old Church lady".  Her name was Helen. 

Well, if I was Helen or any of the other Church family members, I would certainly not be very happy with Jerry at all.  :censored:  :mad:

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Posted (edited)

For reference, there is an in depth letter titled "Setting the record straight" (Marketplace Mail) by Bob Beerbohm in the 42nd issue of CBM (December 1996) which details the Reilly collection from his perspective. 

Edited by Primetime

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15 minutes ago, Primetime said:

For reference, there is an in depth letter titled "Setting the record straight" (Marketplace Mail) by Bob Beerbohm in the 42nd issue of CBM (December 1996) which details the Reilly collection from his perspective. 

Link...?

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2 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

Link...?

It's old school, hard copy in my hands :grin:. You probably can find it online somewhere....

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1 minute ago, Primetime said:

It's old school, hard copy in my hands :grin:. You probably can find it online somewhere....

anything that mentions the Cap 1 at issue in the article?

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2 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

anything that mentions the Cap 1 at issue in the article?

No, because by the time Bob saw the books, Nick and Mike had already cherry picked all the Timelys in that first batch on the pallet. The rolled up/rubber banded Cap 1 would not have made it to Bob based on what I have heard and read. 

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Bob was the main buyer at comics and comics...I believe Bud Plant might have some info also, John Barrett sadly passed away.

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5 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

Bob was the main buyer at comics and comics...I believe Bud Plant might have some info also, John Barrett sadly passed away.

John Barrett was a great friend of mine since I was 16. John held all the Fantasy 15 the store got for my 45 min drive every week. I Dealt with Bob a lot but he would rip me off bad for a book I wanted :makepoint:

John was so nice sorry he past :frown:

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

Bob was the main buyer at comics and comics...I believe Bud Plant might have some info also, John Barrett sadly passed away.

Listening to Bud Plant tell stories about Bob Beerbohm easily makes the list of top ten most entertaining things I have ever experienced.

Edited by MrBedrock

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On 5/24/2019 at 3:15 PM, G.A.tor said:

Does make you wonder. I had a book pressed 8.0 to 8.5. 

After a while , seeing it in 8.5 holder It was suggested it needed to be pressed, so hopeful for a 9.0 I agreed. Came back 8.5 again. 

A year later suggested I press it. Sure, why not. Got a 8.5 again. So sometimes books look like a press will fix but it doesn’t. And then maybe it might. Don’t know. 

Some of you folks are the pedigree of the hobby, most experienced, most knowledgeable we've got.  So my opinion doesn't carry weight and shouldn't.    But let me offer up what might be food for thought.    I had 9 file copies of a book signed and handed to CGC on-site at a con by a great client of theirs.  They weren't pre-screened, but they were pre-screened...and all 9 came back 9.8.  I don't believe they were all 9.8s.  It's a black cover.  There weren't any 9.9s or 9.6s in there?...fascinating.   CGC seems to be a solid company, but certainly folks there can be swayed.  They're human.  If anyone held sway, Verzyl would I would think.

You also have the grading process, which entails multiple graders, but a final verdict of one grader.  A resub isn't assessed by the same grader the 2nd or 3rd time as the first.  They are not machines.  A grade is subjective.  Sure, experience helps.  Skill in grading helps.  But if a book is deemed an 8.5, seems to  me it falls between an 8.251 and 8.749.   If pre-press a robot calculated the grade an 8.72, and after press an 8.77, the grade would kick up from 8.5 to 9.0, it would have to.   I have another book that is valuable, was a 9.0 slab, signed, re-slabbed.  The signing process didn't damage the book in any way per the previous owner whom I trust, yet somehow the grade dropped to 8.5.  Point is, there's lots of factors.  Generally I think they do the best they can, but a lot of factors come into play, especially when money is involved, but the human eye is one of them too.  Sure CGC makes fees, but the graders also have jobs, the company has a reputation and could be effected positively or negatively by what grade a book is given.  It's a big deal when a highly visible, valuable book, where the grade has ramifications has an outcome like what's described above where pressing and resubbing kicks up the grade multiple times.  Just knowing it happened has a huge butterfly effect.  Why it happened is conjecture.  It's possible that top collector/dealer knows top presser, top presser does masterful work...more than once, and improves the quality of a book multiple times.   We just don't know.  I do wonder how often top top collector/dealer with sway has a book that regraded comes back lower.  I'm guessing rarely.

A Pepsi-Coke challenge I'd like to see, is two graders CGC considers the tops side by side at a con, grade 100 books.  How many do they grade identical to each other?  One thing is for sure, the number wouldn't be 100.  That mostly is what it is.  I don't know how you quality control that to the degree that it changes.  They're human.

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7 minutes ago, eschnit said:

Some of you folks are the pedigree of the hobby, most experienced, most knowledgeable we've got.  So my opinion doesn't carry weight and shouldn't.    But let me offer up what might be food for thought.    I had 9 file copies of a book signed and handed to CGC on-site at a con by a great client of theirs.  They weren't pre-screened, but they were pre-screened...and all 9 came back 9.8.  I don't believe they were all 9.8s.  It's a black cover.  There weren't any 9.9s or 9.6s in there?...fascinating.   CGC seems to be a solid company, but certainly folks there can be swayed.  They're human.  If anyone held sway, Verzyl would I would think.

You also have the grading process, which entails multiple graders, but a final verdict of one grader.  A resub isn't assessed by the same grader the 2nd or 3rd time as the first.  They are not machines.  A grade is subjective.  Sure, experience helps.  Skill in grading helps.  But if a book is deemed an 8.5, seems to  me it falls between an 8.251 and 8.749.   If pre-press a robot calculated the grade an 8.72, and after press an 8.77, the grade would kick up from 8.5 to 9.0, it would have to.   I have another book that is valuable, was a 9.0 slab, signed, re-slabbed.  The signing process didn't damage the book in any way per the previous owner whom I trust, yet somehow the grade dropped to 8.5.  Point is, there's lots of factors.  Generally I think they do the best they can, but a lot of factors come into play, especially when money is involved, but the human eye is one of them too.  Sure CGC makes fees, but the graders also have jobs, the company has a reputation and could be effected positively or negatively by what grade a book is given.  It's a big deal when a highly visible, valuable book, where the grade has ramifications has an outcome like what's described above where pressing and resubbing kicks up the grade multiple times.  Just knowing it happened has a huge butterfly effect.  Why it happened is conjecture.  It's possible that top collector/dealer knows top presser, top presser does masterful work...more than once, and improves the quality of a book multiple times.   We just don't know.  I do wonder how often top top collector/dealer with sway has a book that regraded comes back lower.  I'm guessing rarely.

A Pepsi-Coke challenge I'd like to see, is two graders CGC considers the tops side by side at a con, grade 100 books.  How many do they grade identical to each other?  One thing is for sure, the number wouldn't be 100.  That mostly is what it is.  I don't know how you quality control that to the degree that it changes.  They're human.

Actually I understand finalizing now to be consensus and not a single finalizer? But I could be wrong of course 

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12 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

Actually I understand finalizing now to be consensus and not a single finalizer? But I could be wrong of course 

That's interesting.  I doubt you're wrong :). 

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I wonder if Mike is still alive...anybody know?

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