Provenance or Pedigree 0

[Chicago Boy]

22 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Awesome !  Thx !

[N e r V]

I think the Gaines file copies are one of the true stand outs in file copies.

My Dell and Harvey files are top notch but I’ve seen ones with the file label in recent years that don’t look as good. Maybe they weren’t treated as kindly over the years?

Edited May 28, 2019 by N e r V

[Chicago Boy]

3 minutes ago, N e r V said:

I think the Gaines file copies are one of the true stand outs in file copies.

My Dell and Harvey files are top notch but I’ve seen ones with the file label in recent years that don’t look as good. Maybe they weren’t treated as kindly?

 Are there any educated guesses out there how many file  copies each publisher kept of an issue In the golden age?

[sfcityduck]

15 hours ago, N e r V said:

 

My Dell and Harvey files are top notch but I’ve seen ones with the file label in recent years that don’t look as good. Maybe they weren’t treated as kindly over the years?

Isn't that because there's not just one batch of such file copies, but several different batches from different sources?  I can think of two separate batches of "Poughkeesie file copies" and the Random House Archives, for example.  

And sometimes, I think, the term "file copy" is slapped on comics which really aren't from a publishers file, but are actually part of a warehouse find.  I think that's true for Harvey.  There are both "file copies" and a warehouse find.

P.S. I agree that the Gaines file copies are the standouts, they are also the only file copy which are also a pedigree recognized by CGC.

Edited May 28, 2019 by sfcityduck

[N e r V]

1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

Isn't that because there's not just one batch of such file copies, but several different batches from different sources?  I can think of two separate batches of "Poughkeesie file copies" and the Random House Archives, for example.  

And sometimes, I think, the term "file copy" is slapped on comics which really aren't from a publishers file, but are actually part of a warehouse find.  I think that's true for Harvey.  There are both "file copies" and a warehouse find.

P.S. I agree that the Gaines file copies are the standouts, they are also the only file copy which are also a pedigree recognized by CGC.

Not sure. That was long time ago. I bought a lot of my stuff directly from Geppi. I think Sparkle City was also a source of a lot of the Harveys and a few others. I got a lot of other misc. material too that was Harvey related from the company. When Harvey tried some sort of “restart” in the 1990’s I think I sold them some material from comics to original art,etc.  Not just story  pages but character design art pages, etc.

Without going back to look the main source of the Dell file copies was a pretty major dealer of that era, 1980’s I believe. I’m pretty sure they also advertised in the Comic Buyers Guide but so many of the dealers back then are gone now. I kept records of most of my transactions back then but they are often still in storage with the actual books (safely wrapped up).

It wasn’t as a big deal then to sell something as a file copy so when you got one you had a shorter distance to track its history down and less financial incentive from the seller (outside of its actual condition).

Maybe I’m wrong but it just seems today the term file copy gets thrown out there more often with sellers not offering much background on why they think it is such. 

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by N e r V

[Chicago Boy]

File Copy 

[telerites]

1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

And sometimes, I think, the term "file copy" is slapped on comics which really aren't from a publishers file, but are actually part of a warehouse find.  I think that's true for Harvey.  There are both "file copies" and a warehouse find.

This makes think of the collection names that some dealers place on their acquisitions.  Chuckie's Mile High 2, David Alexander's Southern States, Quality Comix Tongie Farm, Metro has a lot of them like the Super Soldier, Southern Cal's Southern California Comics Collection, etc.   

I assume their may be some provenance with these but often they appear a marketing strategy.  And I have bought books from some the collections I mentioned but I wasn't driven because of the dealer's label placed upon them.

In another vein, there are some collections I would like to see noted by CGC.  New Hampshire is one that comes to mind.  

[N e r V]

I think a lot of this becomes subjective and only important to sellers if it gets them more money using a label.

When you hear a pedigree name you might have certain built in expectations.

But if two books are exactly equal 9.2’s with same structure, color gloss, page quality, etc.. and one is a wild original owner book that’s survived in that shape and one is a Church/Mile High book will both sell the same at auction? Maybe. But one of them certainly has a lead with publicity and a clear edge in getting a better price. It doesn’t matter if you don’t care because there are enough buyers who do.

Just like there are enough buyers out there who hang on the cases number as most important vs what the book inside might actually look like. Haven’t we all seen enough books that we question the grade after it’s sealed in plastic?

 

The provenance aspect may or may not be helpful or interesting to a buyer. I’ve also seen what I consider suspect provenance on books. It’s not like all provenance can come with iron clad evidence so at some point you’re taking the word of the seller. Do you trust them enough?

 

As to file copies do you care if it’s from a company’s file, warehouse or someone bought if fresh off the stands and kept it? If it’s high grade does that matter to you? Maybe. Maybe not.

[Arkadin]

On 5/26/2019 at 7:15 PM, Chicago Boy said:

What’s your favorite and why ? 

Bethlehem.

Mysterious owner,  thousands of prime 50's and 60's comics, legendary "E. J. Kery Kodak - Film - Magazine shop" stamp... and I owned one once upon a time.

[Robot Man]

I like that one too. Great story. Off the top of my head, this is one of my favorite Bethlehems. Got the stamp, got a stamped arrival date, and Wolverton...

[Robot Man]

File copies? Many cases hard to pin down without real verification. I like pedigrees with markings as a rule. Here is a file copy I might have paid a little too much for but I liked the book and the stamp is iron clad.

[Robot Man]

And then, there are these kind of "file copies" Also, pretty iron clad.

[lou_fine]

5 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

And sometimes, I think, the term "file copy" is slapped on comics which really aren't from a publishers file, but are actually part of a warehouse find.  I think that's true for Harvey.  There are both "file copies" and a warehouse find.

From my personal point of view, there is a world of difference between a "File Copy" and a warehouse find.

Especially if you are referring to a Poughkeepsie File Copy from say the late 30's or early 40's where there might only be that one "file copy" of a particular book.  A warehouse find brings to my mind the distinct possibility of multiple copies of the exact same book in the same equivalent grades. 

[Robot Man]

Redbeard needs to chime in here. He was around when a lot of these “file copy” finds were discovered and has a lot of info I would suspect.

[Arkadin]

I think the key to pedigrees is not the books - that's not the romantic heart, it's the owner. And many of the owners were a mystery, adding immeasurably to that romance. 

And I wonder if that the shadowy nature of the owners and pedigree finders may, in some cases, have made the pedigree book a non-starter. It needs that hook of the owner's story, and the discovery story for each pedigree - but I'm guessing that those people may not want their stories to be public. And so... no book.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Arkadin

[Marty Mann]

No pedigree but lots of stories.

Marty