Would you refund? 0

[Get Marwood & I]

3 minutes ago, shadroch said:

11 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

So your saying:

• Person A gives his book to a dealer to sell on consignment
• The Dealers sells to person B
• Person B, the new owner of two months, so he must have paid the dealer, requests registry transfer from the dealer (who he bought it from)
• The dealer says no. Or, the dealer asks person A, and they say no

Is that the scenario?

I think Person A claimed he still owns the book. If he sent it out on consignment and hasn't gotten paid yet, I can see his point.

All I'm really curious about is if people thought the dealer should refund.

If the dealer hasn't paid the original owner, two months after selling the book to the new owner, then, in the absence of mitigating factors, he or she must be a 

Why are we even theorising over the registry record if that is the scenario? The dealer has stiffed both people - he hasn't paid the original owner and, in doing so, is stopping the new owner from claiming the registry. If I give a book to a dealer to sell on consignment, and he doesn't pay me after selling it, being asked to surrender the registry record would be a further kick in the teeth and I would resist too. The dealer needs to pay the original owner. And then the new owner can claim the registry without a fight. And then the new and old owner need to team up and go and kick the dealers teeth in for being such a .

Subject to those potential mitigating factors of course 

 

[JWKyle]

2 months is way to long for a CGC return. If the slab is received and the book and the slab are in acceptable/described condition then that should be the end of the transaction. As for the registry points for a book that is also easily resolved you contact CGC directly and show proof of ownership and that should be the end of it . The only thing that would constitute a refund after this amount of time if the original owner is stating the book was stolen and a dealer sold the book unknowingly that it was stolen.

If this was the case then of course there is a issue and isn't going to be cookie cutter resolved.   

[comix4fun]

1 hour ago, Catwomancomics said:

Wouldn’t this fall under “ Buyers Remorse “ because they can’t register the book.

I wouldn’t  refund a book for this. It’s absurd. As most sellers state, no refunds on cgc graded books. If the book was not damaged during shipping etc, sorry no refund.

I’m sure most sellers don’t care about the registry of books they’re selling.

 

I tend to agree, however, there are some details that we're lacking. 

1) How/Why is the old owner withholding registration to a new owner? I would assume (absent a claim of theft) that possession and/or proof of purchase of the book in question would be enough.

2) Did the seller market the book specifically utilizing the registry points as a selling point? I've seen this happen. If the book is worth a materially large amount of point relative to the other book in the run or that book in other grades it's the kind of thing that makes registry-heads decide to buy or not buy. If the seller made registry points part of the marketing of the book and the new owner can't (for whatever reason) can't get those registry points, then I can see why they'd want their money back. 

If it was a run of the mill sale, with no mention of registry points, then the importance of those point and the onus on correcting the inability to register would seem to be on the purchaser absent some action or omission by the seller that caused the situation. Even then, if it were the seller's actions or omissions preventing registration of the book to the purchasers account (however that might happen) they might have a duty to correct whatever prevents registration but I am not seeing a mandatory return/refund situation. 

 

[Catwomancomics]

@comix4fun I really never gave much thought that sellers sometimes use registry points to help sell a book. That does change things, if that’s the case. Thank you for pointing that out.

[shadroch]

1 hour ago, Catwomancomics said:

@comix4fun I really never gave much thought that sellers sometimes use registry points to help sell a book. That does change things, if that’s the case. Thank you for pointing that out.

Years ago, I set up an Avengers set in the registry but most of those books got sold. I haven't looked at the registry in quite a long time.

Do dealers and sellers use the registry for fishing expeditions?

[Catwomancomics]

13 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Years ago, I set up an Avengers set in the registry but most of those books got sold. I haven't looked at the registry in quite a long time.

Do dealers and sellers use the registry for fishing expeditions?

I’m not a dealer, but I sell cgc graded books on occasion.  I can care less about the registry.

Edit: IMHO If registry points make or break a deal for the buyer, it’s time to rethink why you’re buying the book. Personally, I like collecting books not points.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Catwomancomics

[Bird]

only cgc can award registry points so how can anyone "sell" them with their books? 

 

[comix4fun]

22 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Years ago, I set up an Avengers set in the registry but most of those books got sold. I haven't looked at the registry in quite a long time.

Do dealers and sellers use the registry for fishing expeditions?

I've seen sellers state "This book in this grade is worth X number of registry points, enough to put any set on top..." yada yada. 

So they're selling the book, both for what the book is, but also how many points you'll get adding it to your registry. 

I know for a while people were at each others throats trying to win registry awards. I never participated so I don't know if that's still the way it is. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I infrequently use the registry as a selling point.

"Not able to register" is easily resolved by contacting Mollie at CGC. Proof of possession is all one needs. In no case should it be used as an excuse to refund.

[TupennyConan]

This is where career sellers market their virtuous refund policy with obligatory condemnation of those unscrupulous weekend warriors who won't refund. 

[mdube16]

2 months is too long for a slabbed book refund and the registry excuse is no reason.

 

That said, an old owner can not have any say in a new owner gaining points.  If this were allowed, wouldn't terrible people sell books and then hold the points hostage for cash or other considerations?   Clearly that cant be allowed.

[James J Johnson]

5 hours ago, shadroch said:

I think Person A claimed he still owns the book. If he sent it out on consignment and hasn't gotten paid yet, I can see his point.

All I'm really curious about is if people thought the dealer should refund.

If they paid using paypal or any source funded by a credit card,  the buyer has a 6 month window anyway to ask for a refund, whether right or wrong, because that's the statute of limitations for a paypal or credit card chargeback. The seller should bear this in mind. When a vendor accepts these type of payments, he's essentially providing a 6 month satisfaction guarantee, whether he wants to or not. Cash, check, money order? The seller holds all the cards and decides return policy. Paypal or credit card? The buyer is in control for 6 months. .

Edited May 27, 2019 by James J Johnson

[PunisherPunisherPunisher]

I might go out and buy a Ferrari and hand it back in after 2 months and want a full refund

[comicdonna]

Just now, PunisherPunisherPunisher said:

I might go out and buy a Ferrari and hand it back in after 2 months and want a full refund

Item not as described.  It would only go 169 MPH.

[James J Johnson]

31 minutes ago, comicdonna said:

Item not as described.  It would only go 169 MPH.

Found it cheaper elsewhere; is also what they consider a valid reason for a chargeback.

[MustEatBrains]

Very easy for the current owner to transfer if they have the book in their possession even if it is being declined by a previous owner (that’s just a Richard move btw). @ADAMANTIUM laid it out earlier and provided the email of who can help.  Will need some photo verification with dated info in s pic.  Just had this happen to one of my books and CGC was quick to address.

As to the OP’s question no I would not refund at all just provide the info on how they can complete the transfer.

 

[Brock]

There are a range of reasons that a book can't be added to a registry set, and though the OP "thinks" it's because the transfer of the book from one set to another is the reason, he doesn't appear to state this as fact.

I collect slabbed Whitman variants of DC books, and (in my experience) CGC struggles with these. I have some books where it is not noted on the label that the book is a Whitman variant, so it can't be added to the set. I have other books where the label has the wrong issue number (most DC Whitmans don't have a number on the cover), so they can be added to the set - but only in the incorrect slot.

I have a CGC-slabbed Vampirella Strikes with a cover by Manara that cannot be added to my Manara registry set, because the label only says "one of four covers" with denoting which of the four it is.

I'm sure others could identify other reasons that books can't be added to a registry set.

I'm sure any of these could be enough to create "buyer's remorse" for set collectors, though I still don't see this as the seller's fault. The seller does not maintain the registry, or decide which books get labelled in which way, so the seller should not be on the hook for a refund, unless perhaps he specifically stated that the book could be added to the set (which would be a misrepresentation).

I have not re-subbed any of my books, but I would ultimately hope that CGC might offer to re-label books (at no cost) in these situations.

 

EDIT: I see that subsequent posts from the OP expand on the original owner/dealer/new owner issues, but most of my point still stands.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Brock

[theCapraAegagrus]

LOL no.

I have some custom sets on the registry for fun, but that should have no bearing on the transaction of the money for the product...

[shadroch]

6 hours ago, Brock said:

There are a range of reasons that a book can't be added to a registry set, and though the OP "thinks" it's because the transfer of the book from one set to another is the reason, he doesn't appear to state this as fact.

I collect slabbed Whitman variants of DC books, and (in my experience) CGC struggles with these. I have some books where it is not noted on the label that the book is a Whitman variant, so it can't be added to the set. I have other books where the label has the wrong issue number (most DC Whitmans don't have a number on the cover), so they can be added to the set - but only in the incorrect slot.

I have a CGC-slabbed Vampirella Strikes with a cover by Manara that cannot be added to my Manara registry set, because the label only says "one of four covers" with denoting which of the four it is.

I'm sure others could identify other reasons that books can't be added to a registry set.

I'm sure any of these could be enough to create "buyer's remorse" for set collectors, though I still don't see this as the seller's fault. The seller does not maintain the registry, or decide which books get labelled in which way, so the seller should not be on the hook for a refund, unless perhaps he specifically stated that the book could be added to the set (which would be a misrepresentation).

I have not re-subbed any of my books, but I would ultimately hope that CGC might offer to re-label books (at no cost) in these situations.

 

EDIT: I see that subsequent posts from the OP expand on the original owner/dealer/new owner issues, but most of my point still stands.

I have no idea why the book wasn't added. I conjectured on it, but all I know was a seller was complaining about someone requesting a refund over not being to add the book to his registry. I thought it was ridiculous, and am glad to see most of the people feel the same.

[dupont2005]

On 5/27/2019 at 9:17 AM, Krishosein said:

Curious, how would someone find use of this for stealing as I don't think there is any personal information on the registry? As my concern then is it safe to post your books on a registry then? 

If you know your target you can investigate their inventory with the registry, handily cross referencing with the census. Then when you’re ransacking their house you know what they have and you know which ones are worth 10k+ and which ones are worth $65. Comic book thieves are becoming incredibly sophisticated at cons, only a matter of time until someone with 6-7 figures worth of assets advertised online gets hit.