No More CGC Submissions for me 3 3

[theCapraAegagrus]

32 minutes ago, Callaway29 said:

It amazes me that there are so many valid threads that die a quick death, but these BS one's run for weeks, sometimes months, with tons of activity. Change starts with me, I am officially boycotting.

It's kinda how feedback attracts more negativity than positivity (Chrome says this is not a word..?).

Stupidity draws crowds here. And, yes, I am a sucker.

[F For Fake]

Also, returning to the previous conversation about transparency, I think the thing that has stuck in the craws of many submitters over the years is that CGC won't release their specific grading criteria. Sure, we've gotten a pretty good idea over the years of how much they're deducting for certain flaws, but there has never been any sort of release of their specific standards, and obviously those standards have changed back and forth over the years. We went through a "loose" period, now apparently we're in a "strict" period. If there was one standard being applied by all graders over the years, that would lead to a consistency that would be helpful for those that are subbing. This, of course, will never happen, because:

1. Grading is subjective, an art not a science, so you're never going to get all of the graders to agree on one standard, even if it seems like you SHOULD be able to get pretty darn close, right?

and

2. Why would they? The guessing game can only increase subs. If I have a book I'm considering subbing, and a  CGC grading standards guide that tells me precisely how CGC is going to grade it, I may not sub it if I don't think it'd be worth the time/cost to sub. By keeping the standards vague, they allow that glimmer of hope that my book may be better than I think it is. It's that hope that drives slabbing and CPR. Sure, I think this book is a 9.6, maybe even a 9.4, but if I have it pressed and slabbed, what COULD it be? Maybe I'll hit the jackpot! I think that CGC slabbing triggers the same reward centers in the brain related to gambling addictions. I'm not a doctor though. At least not according to the court orders I've received. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by F For Fake

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

4 hours ago, moemaya said:

excellent suggestion..did you read my post?

 

Im not tooting my horn, but if I assess a book at 8.0, my customers agree and are satisfied with their purchase. So when my 8.0 comes back as a 6.0, thats a big difference.

No offence intended, but its quite possible your customers do not know how to grade. I've known lots of people who have overpaid for expensive SA/BA books because they have no clue how to grade and simply trust the seller to be honest and/or accurate. And I'm not suggesting you cannot grade and/or are dishonest. Just pointing out that the buyers do not necessarily know any better. 

Sorry to hear about your disappointment. We've pretty much all been there. The lesson to be learned is this: CGC grades are what determine the benchmark for prices, so one must adapt to their grading or at least understand how they grade.

Better luck in the future!  

[valiantman]

7 minutes ago, KEY ISSUES Comics said:

5 hours ago, moemaya said:

excellent suggestion..did you read my post?

 

Im not tooting my horn, but if I assess a book at 8.0, my customers agree and are satisfied with their purchase. So when my 8.0 comes back as a 6.0, thats a big difference.

No offence intended, but its quite possible your customers do not know how to grade. I've known lots of people who have overpaid for expensive SA/BA books because they have no clue how to grade and simply trust the seller to be honest and/or accurate.

If all it takes to be an excellent grader is that "customers are satisfied with their purchase" then I am part of the problem. I buy raw books on Ebay, expecting them to be 2.0 or 3.0 lower than whatever the seller says and I bid accordingly. They usually are 2.0 or 3.0 lower than whatever the seller says. I leave positive feedback because I got what I expected, not because the seller was accurate.

[Dr. Love]

The OP did use the PGM thread last year on this book. 

"wow - i was thinking 5.0 - not fair if you think about it - rest of book is really nice. but thanks for input.."

Also, OP had questions about cleaning books and ended up deciding to experiment:

"I just ordered the putty and a book dirt eraser from amazon.  Not the worst $18 Ive ever spent. I only have Bronze and Silver age, will try it on some low grade books and keep you posted."

Grading, cleaning...time to buy a press and become a triple threat!

All kidding aside, OP, noobs always get a bit of hazing especially if their opinions run counter to CGC.  And apparently for your value tier, grading does seem an excessive expense.  But there is something off about your unwillingness to grasp that your grading isn't all that, and as long as your buyers keep buying why bother to look at that aspect of things.

 

 

[comix4fun]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Love said:

The OP did use the PGM thread last year on this book. 

"wow - i was thinking 5.0 - not fair if you think about it - rest of book is really nice. but thanks for input.."

 

 

 

If he can track down the vermin that made a meal out of that book, there's a chance he can reassemble it and up the grade. 

[Dr. Love]

Dude, if you're really serious about selling comics as a part time career, then do yourself a favor and post scans of the graded books and the notes.  Let the board members help you understand the grades and up your game.

 

 

 

[cigars&comix]

ok theres no way i have time to address all the rebuttals and rebukes on my post...

I agree...CGC does hold a higher standard than me..(i am not worthy)

But my customers arent unassuming novice buyers. I sell to many established knowledgeable collectors every week that like my books.

Maybe they just ignore my grade and look at my pics which is fine with me.

Thank you all - post closed

[telerites]

This may have been addressed but I missed it.  

Why even submit?  You seem confident of your grading ability and you stated your Ebay customer were pleased and agreed with your grades.

You are adding to your overhead with grading costs, shipping, pressing/cleaning (if you add that on) when it doesn't seem to benefit you since you were selling to happy customers.  

Plus, you should realize that the CGC grades may not agree with yours even if the variance is slight.  Yes, it could be higher than grades but the risk is always there that the grade will be lower.

Good luck.

[Dick Pontoon]

Why are you reluctant to post scans or a link to your ebay items?

[ADAMANTIUM]

2 minutes ago, telerites said:

This may have been addressed but I missed it.  

Why even submit?  You seem confident of your grading ability and you stated your Ebay customer were pleased and agreed with your grades.

You are adding to your overhead with grading costs, shipping, pressing/cleaning (if you add that on) when it doesn't seem to benefit you since you were selling to happy customers.  

Plus, you should realize that the CGC grades may not agree with yours even if the variance is slight.  Yes, it could be higher than grades but the risk is always there that the grade will be lower.

Good luck.

You missed the title of the thread?  

[Sensei Ryan]

20 minutes ago, moemaya said:

ok theres no way i have time to address all the rebuttals and rebukes on my post...

I agree...CGC does hold a higher standard than me..(i am not worthy)

But my customers arent unassuming novice buyers. I sell to many established knowledgeable collectors every week that like my books.

Maybe they just ignore my grade and look at my pics which is fine with me.

Thank you all - post closed

This is totally meant to encourage you, by the way, but a lot of people think they know how to grade until they send in to CGC the first time.  We all have an 'awakening' of sorts...and while I'm sure you're good at spotting flaws we pay this professional company to certify our product and to verify any flaws and to assign a grade.  Don't give up on CGC, just try again and learn from their system how to more accurately grade while using these experiences as reference. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

22 minutes ago, moemaya said:

ok theres no way i have time to address all the rebuttals and rebukes on my post...

I agree...CGC does hold a higher standard than me..(i am not worthy)

But my customers arent unassuming novice buyers. I sell to many established knowledgeable collectors every week that like my books.

Maybe they just ignore my grade and look at my pics which is fine with me.

Thank you all - post closed

[telerites]

18 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

You missed the title of the thread?  

But why sub in the first place 

He seemed to rocking along without slabbing - both he and his customers are/were happy with his grading (albeit, potentially amiss) - seems like no need for him.

And to top it all off, it isn't even Friday 

Edited May 30, 2019 by telerites

[ADAMANTIUM]

1 minute ago, telerites said:

19 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

You missed the title of the thread?  

But why sub in the first place 

Because he thought he'd get the same grades from cgc.... that he grades the book...

If your thinking a graded book wouldn't max the value when sold as oppose to raw, then the OP has learned that he'll do just that.

[badback83]

@moemaya What’s your eBay name so I can check out the good deals.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Uncomfortable truths that are often offensive to hear, but will, if acknowledged and embraced, only help those who listen:

1. The vast majority of people...perhaps 90-99%...don't complain, even when they have a legitimate complaint. It's just not in the nature of most people.

2. The vast majority of comic book buyers neither care about, nor understand, grading. This includes people who have been buying for decades.

2a. A good chunk of those buyers don't pay attention when they're buying.

3. The vast majority of comic book sellers do not know how to grade, and a good chunk of those aren't interested in learning, for reasons of self-interest.

4. Therefore, the fact that buyers are "satisfied" with a particular seller's grading really means little to nothing at all.

My first "big" submission, I submitted (without benefit of a press) 37 modern books. Of those 37, 25 came back 9.8. Of the remaining 12, I cracked them out...still without a press....resubbed them under a 9.8 pre-screen and 11 passed and joined the other 25 9.8s. Why? Because I'm the best grader around, and want to brag? No. It is because I'm ultra-picky, and always have been, which is of great benefit to me when submitting, but has historically been a complete and total disaster when it comes to buying from others. It is a TERRIBLE handicap when it comes to buying from people on eBay and elsewhere...and that's because most buyers don't care, and sellers can rightfully say "well, no one but you has ever complained. The problem must be you."

I and people like me are colossal exceptions to the above rules, and only because of a specific set of innate personality traits that translate well into grading.

I had a funny exchange a couple years ago that illustrates the issue: I sold someone a JLA #1 that had become detached, and neatly reattached at the staples with two small pieces of clear tape.That fact was very clearly detailed in the listing. Nothing hidden from anyone. Buyer buys, leaves positive feedback...then contacts me 6-8 months later, saying "hey, the cover is taped on!" I respond "yes, which I disclosed on the listing", but the buyer now has a bad opinion of me because THEY didn't pay attention. Fair? No, but that's life.

So, moemaya, the issue almost certainly is you, not CGC. As others have said, even though CGC's grading standards are secret, we have literally millions of examples that exist, the average of which will give us a very good idea of how they grade for every grade designation. The beauty is, you don't have to agree with CGC's grading. CGC's grade is just an opinion. All that really matters is that your buyer agrees with your grade, or, at a minimum, disregards it if they disagree.

But beware: if you don't agree with CGC's grades, you may be asked to justify your disagreement.

Edited May 30, 2019 by RockMyAmadeus
dratted typos

[FineCollector]

57 minutes ago, moemaya said:

Thank you all - post closed

How quaint... he thinks we're going to let this go just because he says he's done!

Understand that some very big players visit the boards.  I thought I knew a lot until I joined this message board, and realized I knew nothing.  There's a tremendous pool of knowledge here, and if you want to benefit from it, all you have to do is listen.  Just stir in a little bit of humility, and people will be happy to share.

[theCapraAegagrus]

12 minutes ago, FineCollector said:

How quaint... he thinks we're going to let this go just because he says he's done!

Understand that some very big players visit the boards.  I thought I knew a lot until I joined this message board, and realized I knew nothing.  There's a tremendous pool of knowledge here, and if you want to benefit from it, all you have to do is listen.  Just stir in a little bit of humility, and people will be happy to share.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

1 hour ago, Dr. Love said:

The OP did use the PGM thread last year on this book. 

"wow - i was thinking 5.0 - not fair if you think about it - rest of book is really nice. but thanks for input.."

Cite your source.