No More CGC Submissions for me 3 3

[rjpb]

2 hours ago, valiantman said:

If all it takes to be an excellent grader is that "customers are satisfied with their purchase" then I am part of the problem. I buy raw books on Ebay, expecting them to be 2.0 or 3.0 lower than whatever the seller says and I bid accordingly. They usually are 2.0 or 3.0 lower than whatever the seller says. I leave positive feedback because I got what I expected, not because the seller was accurate.

I do the same. It depends on the seller if I expect a lower grade, there are some I trust to be within .5 of my own up or down, and not surprisingly these sellers tend to do pretty well in getting a price in line with advertised grade.  Otherwise, if there are decent scans/photos with a minimal description it's not hard to tell when a sellers "very fine" is closer to a "fine" (or worse sometimes), and those books rarely fetch near the price of a slabbed copy with the same assigned grade.  

That does become a little less certain when books are under a couple hundred dollars (at least for Gold and Silver), as there can be a wide range for prices paid. It's a mystery to me why sometimes folks end up bidding a book up past what a nicer copy is listed as a BIN sometimes, but they do. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

19 minutes ago, BlowUpTheMoon said:

Cite your source.  

 

I even graded it @2.5 lmfao.

[newshane]

7 hours ago, moemaya said:

which begs me to ask - why should i bother with cgc?

Why are you asking us? It's your money. 

[Badger]

8 hours ago, moemaya said:

I've been selling comics on ebay for a year now and in a quick amount of time learned to build up a presence and following on my SA and BA books. I have consistent great feedback on my shipping, accuracy, and yes...my grading. Im no pro by any means, but when I state a grade whether it be a 4.0 or a 9.0, I get no complaints whatsoever.

Thats why it came to a surprise to me my last CGC graded submission. Ive only submitted twice. The first time was about a year ago when i submitted some old books from my collection. I wasnt sure what to expect but I took a shot and submitted 10 books. I expected higher grading but I didnt know much back then.

I then submitted my 2nd submission recently of 5 books. I had estimated in my grading a range of 7.5 - 9.0 for these books. What came back was so anything but.

I received a 5.5, 6.0, 6.0, 7.0, 7.5. This is absolutely ludicrous. As a reseller I lost hundreds of dollars on this as I could've sold these for higher grades with zero complaints (and no grading fees!).

I will continue to use CGC for their excellent chat boards but thats about it. From now on its high res images and my suggested grade and let the customer decide.

Anyone else have a similar experience?

I give you props for giving an estimated grade in your listings. So many chicken out yet want top dollar.

[kimik]

10 hours ago, moemaya said:

I've been selling comics on ebay for a year now and in a quick amount of time learned to build up a presence and following on my SA and BA books. I have consistent great feedback on my shipping, accuracy, and yes...my grading. Im no pro by any means, but when I state a grade whether it be a 4.0 or a 9.0, I get no complaints whatsoever.

Thats why it came to a surprise to me my last CGC graded submission. Ive only submitted twice. The first time was about a year ago when i submitted some old books from my collection. I wasnt sure what to expect but I took a shot and submitted 10 books. I expected higher grading but I didnt know much back then.

I then submitted my 2nd submission recently of 5 books. I had estimated in my grading a range of 7.5 - 9.0 for these books. What came back was so anything but.

I received a 5.5, 6.0, 6.0, 7.0, 7.5. This is absolutely ludicrous. As a reseller I lost hundreds of dollars on this as I could've sold these for higher grades with zero complaints (and no grading fees!).

I will continue to use CGC for their excellent chat boards but thats about it. From now on its high res images and my suggested grade and let the customer decide.

Anyone else have a similar experience?

No, outside of the odd time I miss a tear/stain while quickly counting pages, my books come back higher than expected from CGC.

eBay acceptance of your grading means nothing relative to CGC. What was the page quality on the books you got back from CGC? If there are interior stains or even a hint of tanning around the edges on the interior cover/pages then CGC will nail the books.

[Park]

[Jaylam]

40 minutes ago, Park said:

...but, but, but...…...

[bc]

42 minutes ago, Park said:

[musicmeta]

For me when I send in books to be CGC graded, I'm usually pretty close but I seem to always end up with 1 or 2 books that are much higher than I thought and 1 or 2 books that are much lower than I thought....So for me anyway, I'm still learning and trying to improve my grading constantly.  I feel like I can always improve and strive to always do so.  CGC notes help a lot and after reading them,  I say to myself..Jeez, I didn't notice that but will learn and notice that next time.

Edited May 30, 2019 by musicmeta

[comicginger1789]

It is always a good idea for one to put their grading skills to the ultimate test. What is that ultimate test? Why the March Madness tournament I happily discovered and participated in for the first time this year!!! 

That being said, I understand that CGC may over-grade on occasion (I have seen some 9.8s with waaayyy too many colour breaking creases) and occasionally under grade. Not trying to say CGC is the best (I personally have only one book graded by them), I do think they are generally the most consistent.

In the poster's case, I assume you are giving your grade plus plenty of pics. As a frequent ebay buyer, I am not looking to slab books I buy. They are for my collection, to be read and enjoyed and displayed and shared with those who care to see my collection. If I am buying from you, it is alllll about the pictures. My guess is that the poster posts good pictures. Me, as a semi-experienced collector guy, makes his own call. You say VF+, but I am able to see and determine on my own it is likely more a 7.0. I still like your price and that I can see what I am getting so I ignore that you grade a bit high and bid.

As I always do with my listings, I offer my grade opinion in a range (usually a whole grade point range to be safe) and provide enough pics for a buyer to determine. I also say things like "you be the judge" so I have not had anyone complain to me as a buyer. Again, my guess is that the poster has done the same and has had a lot of buyers like myself who are making their own opinions and because they clearly see what they are getting through photos on the listing, they still leave positive feedback. 

[MR SigS]

13 hours ago, Key Largo Comics said:

I've had hundreds of books graded by CGC and have had very few issues. Usually they are within a 1/2 grade or so of my estimate, sometimes a bit higher, sometimes a bit lower.

People who leave feedback on eBay tend to be very forgiving. It seems more likely that you are probably overgrading your raw books than CGC is undergrading your books.

Maybe his customers can't grade.

[PunisherPunisherPunisher]

CGC do have a few jobs available 

[Red84]

So you’re angry at CGC because you can’t grade accurately. 

[comix4fun]

3 hours ago, Park said:

 

3 hours ago, Jaylam said:

...but, but, but...…...

[Buzzetta]

12 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

Forgive him Hector... he knows not what he says or does. 

[Park]

12 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

4 hours ago, Park said:

 

3 hours ago, Jaylam said:

...but, but, but...…...

[Red84]

13 hours ago, moemaya said:

all valid points i guess. which begs me to ask - why should i bother with cgc? especially if my customers are "forgiving" and they are willing to pay my offer..

FYI the books im talking about are under the $500 value tier in most cases...

So I guess you're real question is, why should you change your selling habits when your buyers can't grade either? Hopefully for you none of your buyers submit any of the books they buy from you to CGC and then feel like they were taken.

[BladeTX]

11 hours ago, F For Fake said:

Also, returning to the previous conversation about transparency, I think the thing that has stuck in the craws of many submitters over the years is that CGC won't release their specific grading criteria. Sure, we've gotten a pretty good idea over the years of how much they're deducting for certain flaws, but there has never been any sort of release of their specific standards, and obviously those standards have changed back and forth over the years. We went through a "loose" period, now apparently we're in a "strict" period. If there was one standard being applied by all graders over the years, that would lead to a consistency that would be helpful for those that are subbing. This, of course, will never happen, because:

1. Grading is subjective, an art not a science, so you're never going to get all of the graders to agree on one standard, even if it seems like you SHOULD be able to get pretty darn close, right?

and

2. Why would they? The guessing game can only increase subs. If I have a book I'm considering subbing, and a  CGC grading standards guide that tells me precisely how CGC is going to grade it, I may not sub it if I don't think it'd be worth the time/cost to sub. By keeping the standards vague, they allow that glimmer of hope that my book may be better than I think it is. It's that hope that drives slabbing and CPR. Sure, I think this book is a 9.6, maybe even a 9.4, but if I have it pressed and slabbed, what COULD it be? Maybe I'll hit the jackpot! I think that CGC slabbing triggers the same reward centers in the brain related to gambling addictions. I'm not a doctor though. At least not according to the court orders I've received. 

You hit on something about looser vs stricter grading.  That happened in coins and all the early more strictly graded coins either sold for higher values (they were nicer for the grade or a grade above) or people cracked them out and resubmitted them for higher grades.  I know a guy who made a $200K profit on one coin doing this.  Reward higher than risk.

Do people do this with comics?

[NoMan]

2 minutes ago, BladeTX said:

You hit on something about looser vs stricter grading.  That happened in coins and all the early more strictly graded coins either sold for higher values (they were nicer for the grade or a grade above) or people cracked them out and resubmitted them for higher grades.  I know a guy who made a $200K profit on one coin doing this.  Reward higher than risk.

Do people do this with comics?

  yes, but you’re too late for the big Magik Woo collection Heritage sold off. I don’t believe his books were pressed. So junkies gonna junk!

 

[lou_fine]

15 hours ago, Heronext said:

One of the most common mistakes old school raw graders make I think is not to mark down enough for things like non-color breaking stresses / dings and surface dirt.  If you have the books dry cleaned and pressed they may well come back with your pre-assessed grade or better.  IMHO you should accept the advice of the stalwarts here and adapt to the times and learn how to mix CGC into your business.

 

15 hours ago, romanheart said:

I think you’re grading system and CGCs’ are different. Their grading system is strict. It takes a bit of practice to figure out but once you understand it then your expectations will be in the ballpark.

Sad to say, but very true.  

I would definitely agree with you and say that CGC's undisclosed grading criteria is all about grading very strict and very harshly on the additional revenue stream defects and much less so on the other defects which they cannot generate additional revenues.  Totally understandable though since CCG is a business entity after all, and in that sense it's all about generating as much money for their top and bottom lines by getting their customers to pay as many times as possible on the same book.  Unfortunately, even more so in the past few years now that the former owner of CCS is now the head grader for CGC and it's quite clear where his expertise is in terms of looking for defects.  

Why get money only once from a book when you can make subtle, but yet significant undisclosed changes to come up with a grading system which entices the customer to happily and readily submit the exact same book multiple times back to you.    

Edited May 31, 2019 by lou_fine