August HA Auction 1 1

[delekkerste]

31 minutes ago, Bronty said:

JET, I like the sound of that!

Honestly, WTF cares about semantics Gene.     Sure "aimed at 4 year olds" can be spun into "all ages appeal" but what is at the heart of all of it?

Either you like Kirby Cap or you don't, either you like this Boris book cover or you don't.

Why not like both?   What the slave girl is offensive?   I guess we better all boycott star wars (not hard for me to do since I've never been a fan).

Screw all that.    Let's like what we like.    This (both Kirby and Boris) is illustration art, its fun and its of its time.    Nazis and Slave girls.     It doesn't, IMO, need to be "deep" or address anyone's "stage in life."   It can simply be what it is and be appreciated on that level.

You don't need to be a fan of this piece or any other and neither do I.

I mean, we can play this game ALL DAY LONG.    

You can say 'Boris art was pervy' and I say 'Gene you're a hypocrite having just bought a Red Sonja, warrior in a chain mail bikini cover"?    Who was that created for?   The Illuminati?    Or for pervy 12 year old Gene?      (Pervy 12 year old Dan liked bikinis too don't get we wrong   ).

In summary:    JET.   

I mean... don't you see the inherent inconsistency in your position?   That Boris is, due presumably to subject matter, unfit for your 'stage in life' and yet a Red Sonja cover with her boobs hanging out of the most ridiculous armor anyone never battled in is all in the name of nostalgia?   

Since you brought up laymen, does a layman looking at the Red Sonja art really think, wow, the guy who owns this must be deep and mature and intelligent while thinking the Boris owner is a knuckledragger?   I highly doubt it my friend!    (the laymen will think both owners are knuckledraggers ).    

Deep thoughts!       Like what you like and own it in all its cheese!   

 

You're leaping to conclusions here...I never claimed that (some of) the same criticisms that could be leveled at Boris' work couldn't and wouldn't also be leveled at pen & ink fantasy/sword & sorcery art as well.  In fact, I've already gotten some snide remarks about the Red Sonja cover, which just goes to prove my point!  That said, there is something far more garish and titillating about seeing it full blown Technicolor like the example you showed above, just as it would be a false equivalency to say there's no difference between Romance comic OA and full-blown, Harlequin bodice-ripper cover paintings. 

I know you will disagree, but, I think in most people's minds, there is a clear distinction to be made.  But, again, we all like what we like, and there's nothing wrong with that.  

[vodou]

54 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Sure "aimed at 4 year olds" can be spun into "all ages appeal" but what is at the heart of all of it?

Anybody that's obsessively collecting and displaying kid's stuff can be construed as pervy. Or are they just in touch with their youth?

Attempting to show that some toys are less pervy than others is silly. People shoot people, not guns.

[delekkerste]

5 minutes ago, vodou said:

Anybody that's obsessively collecting and displaying kid's stuff can be construed as pervy. Or are they just in touch with their youth?

I think people who collect lurid, garish fantasy art are in touch with something other than their youth. :

 

[vodou]

1 minute ago, delekkerste said:

I think people who collect lurid, garish fantasy art are in touch with something other than their youth. :

 

Exactly...especially Paul Smith X-Men.

[delekkerste]

6 minutes ago, vodou said:

Exactly...especially Paul Smith X-Men.

That makes no sense... 

There's kid's stuff like Charlotte's Web and Curious George and Mickey Mouse and Spider-Man are kid's stuff, and then there are realistically-drawn images of topless, bound women being sold into sexual slavery which are in another category entirely, at least in most people's homes. You and the Brontster are trying to create a false equivalency between the former and latter, but, people aren't going to fall for that banana in the tailpipe. 

It's fine to like what you like, and collect what you like, but you've also got to own it (much as I endure the snide remarks about Vampirella and Red Sonja)...

Edited July 17, 2019 by delekkerste

[vodou]

Non-collectors do not parse the way collectors do, and they definitely do not the way you do.

Nobody at The Met or MOMA wants any of it. Neither do the (buttguess) 80% of the world's population that doesn't collect anything. To think there is some hitherto unexplained but omnipresent ranking of maturity and thus appeal at work...L O L. It's all beautiful and stupid...at the same time.

But instead of telling me how I've got it wrong...show me this cadre of NON-collectors that ranks these things in minutiae. I'm always looking to learn more about things I don't understand (and further do not believe to exist).

[delekkerste]

4 minutes ago, vodou said:

Non-collectors do not parse the way collectors do, and they definitely do not the way you do.

Nobody at The Met or MOMA wants any of it. Neither do the (buttguess) 80% of the world's population that doesn't collect anything. To think there is some hitherto unexplained but omnipresent ranking of maturity and thus appeal at work...L O L. It's all beautiful and stupid...at the same time.

But instead of telling me how I've got it wrong...show me this cadre of NON-collectors that ranks these things in minutiae. I'm always looking to learn more about things I don't understand (and further do not believe to exist).

The museums and most people not wanting it are straw-men arguments...the only people who want it are the people who read/collect the source material and/or collect the art. 

The whole parsing is a straw-man argument as well.  No one is talking about ranking each bit of IP by maturity level. 

Go show 100 people on the street a Kirby Cap page vs. that Boris painting and ask them which one they'd rather have hanging in their home and it will be no contest, if only because people will not want the latter anywhere near them.  Seriously, at worst, what will someone think if they see a piece of superhero art hanging on your wall?  Low-brow tastes, doesn't appreciate "real art", guy never grew up, guy wastes his money on frivolous tat?  Do I even need to describe what might run through people's heads if they see something like that Boris painting?  You and Dan must be the only people on the planet who think the average person isn't going to differentiate between the two. 

Again, it's fine to like it and collect it, but, you have to own the stigma that comes with it. Because it's real.  

[vodou]

18 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

No one is talking about ranking each bit of IP by maturity level.  

You are. LOL.

[Bronty]

20 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

 

46 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

That makes no sense... 

There's kid's stuff like Charlotte's Web and Curious George and Mickey Mouse and Spider-Man are kid's stuff, and then there are realistically-drawn images of topless, bound women being sold into sexual slavery which are in another category entirely, at least in most people's homes. You and the Brontster are trying to create a false equivalency between the former and latter, but, people aren't going to fall for that banana in the tailpipe. 

It's fine to like what you like, and collect what you like, but you've also got to own it (much as I endure the snide remarks about Vampirella and Red Sonja)...

 

Own what?  I freely admit its all cheese.

You were pushing the idea that you were 'past' the subject matter of that Boris painting (while collecting Red Sonja).

I'm pointing out that (while good on you for enjoying RS) its no better than enjoying the subject matter in that Boris.    Ergo, you are not 'past' the Boris subject matter.   Hey neither am I, its the stuff we grew up on... just sayin'..!

Edited July 17, 2019 by Bronty

[vodou]

19 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Do I even need to describe what might run through people's heads if they see something like that Boris painting?  You and Dan must be the only people on the planet who think the average person isn't going to differentiate between the two. 

Too funny. The average person thinks it's ALL STUPID. At least the one guy "can paint" though

[Bronty]

2 minutes ago, vodou said:

Too funny. The average person thinks it's ALL STUPID.

To me, that's it in a nutshell.

'You collect captain america drawings?  Dumb.'

'You collect fantasy paintings?  Dumb.'

Same shyte!

Edited July 17, 2019 by Bronty

[vodou]

22 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Go show 100 people on the street a Kirby Cap page vs. that Boris painting and ask them which one they'd rather have hanging in their home and it will be no contest, if only because people will not want the latter anywhere near them.

And since you've brought up logical fallacies (straw man argument) well, you sir are guilty of false choice fallacy. There are more than "which one, a or b?" C is NONE, they all suck. (Until you tell them how much faboys are paying at auction for the stuff, that gets everyone's attention...and eyerolls )

[Bronty]

Its true, the only respect the average person has for any of it is monetary.

[delekkerste]

7 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Own what?  I freely admit its all cheese.

You were pushing the idea that you were 'past' the subject matter of that Boris painting (while collecting Red Sonja).

I'm pointing out that (while good on you for enjoying RS) its no better than enjoying the subject matter in that Boris.    Ergo, you are not 'past' the Boris subject matter.   Hey neither am I, its the stuff we grew up on... just sayin'..!

Again, you're reading into things that don't exist.    

And it's not just the subject matter, it's the degree of luridness and garishness.  

A Red Sonja comic book cover may get some snickering, but a Boris slave girl painting will get more than that.

[Bronty]

2 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Again, you're reading into things that don't exist.    

And it's not just the subject matter, it's the degree of luridness and garishness.  

A Red Sonja comic book cover may get some snickering, but a Boris slave girl painting will get more than that.

Let's say that's true.

Who the bleep cares?   Are we so insecure?  

 

[vodou]

3 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Are we so insecure?  

I certainly am. If Gene doesn't approve...I sell. At a loss, if possible.

[delekkerste]

6 minutes ago, Bronty said:

To me, that's it in a nutshell.

'You collect captain america drawings?  Dumb.'

'You collect fantasy paintings?  Dumb.'

Same shyte!

 

8 minutes ago, vodou said:

Too funny. The average person thinks it's ALL STUPID. At least the one guy "can paint" though

 

4 minutes ago, vodou said:

And since you've brought up logical fallacies (straw man argument) well, you sir are guilty of false choice fallacy. There are more than "which one, a or b?" C is NONE, they all suck. (Until you tell them how much fanboys are paying at auction for the stuff, that gets everyone's attention...and eyerolls )

You guys are not living in the real world if you think people perceive this stuff to be equivalent.  They may not be into it, they may think it's juvenile, they may think it's stupid, but, they certainly don't think of them as being juvenile or stupid in the same way, not even close.  People may think that Dumb and Dumber are Showgirls are both juvenile, stupid movies, but, they certainly don't think of them as being juvenile or stupid in the same way.  

Please, others, feel free to chime in and tell these guys what everybody else knows to be true. 

[Bird]

I am in the who cares camp. Live your life, don't worry about what people think about what you  buy or put on your wall. Degrees of being perceived as collecting something dumb or juvenile is not something worth worrying about. Don't live their life, live yours!

[Bronty]

Gene

 

I think Dumb and Dumber is pretty awesome actually

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/cMtbwnh5P4KJnytRA

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by Bronty

[delekkerste]

4 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Let's say that's true.

Who the bleep cares?   Are we so insecure?  

1.  Not the point.

2.  I still like it, but, I'm past the point where I feel like I need to own it.  Much like I still like a lot of the TV shows and movies that I liked as a kid/teen/younger adult, but, have no desire to re-watch them (and, in some cases, would probably feel skeevy watching them at this age).  

3.  Is it more or less insecure than trying to create a false equivalence to comics and co-opting everything into a big bag of "stupid" kid stuff when this isn't even kid stuff?