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August HA Auction
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502 posts in this topic

26 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Crazy-town...there are 25 9.8's, and two sold last year for far less than 1/2 this result. 

Where did the $40k copy sell? GPA has a high of $38k. 

Anything special about this copy in particular? Are there any market factors that would lead at least two bidders to set this kind of a record? 

The usual market factors regarding label number, which lead to high numbers and occasionally to even higher numbers.   "Special" circumstances sometimes alter the price, and the number of existing copies sometimes alters the grade.   But always, only "sometimes." In either case, neither "special" factors nor the number of existing copies in grade alters the outcomes (up or down) as consistently as one might think they would or should.  

Edited by bluechip
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Just now, delekkerste said:

Beyond Words (tm)

"Official Song of the Heritage Aug. 2019 TMNT #1 9.8 Sale....."

 

 

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40 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Very glad to see that this one did not sell for just $60-$65K, because it is one of the best of the earlier covers, if not the best, a sentiment shared by the consignor (David Mandel; I think people know it was his as it was on his CAF for years) 

I think $90K is a good price in light of the weakening sales trend in recent years. Though, it's probably only flat to slightly higher than where it would have been 5 years ago - anyone thinking that this result somehow invalidates the overwhelming evidence we've seen that the BWS Conan market peaked about 5 years ago is kidding themselves. The best pieces will still fetch $$$, but, probably not more than where they were 5 years ago when adjusted for inflation, and most examples below that level are flat to down even before adjusting for inflation. 

Gonna respectfully disagree with you on the Conan cover, and with similar respect to the new owner and noting my opinion is subjective, but I kinda hate that cover.  It's a big Conan and all action-y, but where I defend BWS Conan from the Brian Pecks of the world:baiting:lol  the drawing on this one is so atrocious I have no words.  Conan specifically is so malformed, the perspective so off, it's always been at or near dead last on my list.  I'd MUCH rather have paid the the 18k for that very cool half page Conan #2 house ad :headbang:than this cover monstrosity (yeah, I really hate this cover)!  :sick:  So 90k for THIS Conan cover????  Just bonkers.

Like all things, your mileage may vary. 

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28 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Crazy-town...there are 25 9.8's, and two sold last year for far less than 1/2 this result. 

Where did the $40k copy sell? GPA has a high of $38k. 

Anything special about this copy in particular? Are there any market factors that would lead at least two bidders to set this kind of a record? 

What makes absolutely no sense is that 9.8's are never that hard to come by (well aside from they 5 figure price).  There was ALREADY a 9.8 white pager listed in the November Heritage auction listing.  Plus with SDCC last week and NYCC in another 2 months, it is not at all hard to find a copy.  Why on earth someone who had ready access to 40+ k didn't just drop out and let the person take it at that price and then make a run for one in November (when ostensibly they are the BSD) makes no sense (outside of just paying sticker price for one at a major Con.

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1 minute ago, comix4fun said:

"Official Song of the Heritage Aug. 2019 TMNT #1 9.8 Sale....."

 

 

WHAT WOOOOOOOOOOOOULD YOU DO

IF I UPGRADED MY NINE POINT TWO

BEYOND WORDS TO SHOW YOU FEEL

THAT MY STUPIDITY IS REAL

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY

IF $90K IS WHAT I PAID...

 

 

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Just now, delekkerste said:

WHAT WOOOOOOOOOOOOULD YOU DO

IF I UPGRADED MY NINE POINT TWO

BEYOND WORDS TO SHOW YOU FEEL

THAT MY STUPIDITY IS REAL

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY

IF $90K IS WHAT I PAID...

 

 

1080177980_generocks.gif.68145611055e82487a6e6bd5be392983.gif

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2 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Gonna respectfully disagree with you on the Conan cover, and with similar respect to the new owner and noting my opinion is subjective, but I kinda hate that cover.  It's a big Conan and all action-y, but where I defend BWS Conan from the Brian Pecks of the world:baiting:lol  the drawing on this one is so atrocious I have no words.  Conan specifically is so malformed, the perspective so off, it's always been at or near dead last on my list.  I'd MUCH rather have paid the the 18k for that very cool half page Conan #2 house ad :headbang:than this cover monstrosity (yeah, I really hate this cover)!  :sick:  So 90k for THIS Conan cover????  Just bonkers.

Like all things, your mileage may vary. 

I think BWS fans who like this period of work will forgive the wonky anatomy and instead look to the full-body, front-facing Conan-in-action shot. Surely it would be more bonkers for this one to have sold at a similar price to the recent #5, IMO. 2c 

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I think someone got a pretty nice deal on the Neal Adams Detective 399 cover.  For some reason that image never made much of an impression on me, even in my Adams obsessed youth, but seeing the original at the Heritage booth at SDCC and it looked much better than I would have thought, and it kind of made me reassess it.  It will never go on my list of faves, but it's a pretty dramatic, well designed and well drawn Batman cover by the artist that is identified as one of the definitive Batman artists of all time.  I think in light of 6 figure Sal Buscema covers, this Adams cover might have been a bargain!

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6 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I think BWS fans who like this period of work will forgive the wonky anatomy and instead look to the full-body, front-facing Conan-in-action shot. Surely it would be more bonkers for this one to have sold at a similar price to the recent #5, IMO. 2c 

I guess, and I'm always one of those guys that defends the wonky BWS anatomy from the naysayers, but there are limits.  This one crosses the line for me.  

Edited by stinkininkin
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9 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

I think someone got a pretty nice deal on the Neal Adams Detective 399 cover.  For some reason that image never made much of an impression on me, even in my Adams obsessed youth, but seeing the original at the Heritage booth at SDCC and it looked much better than I would have thought, and it kind of made me reassess it.  It will never go on my list of faves, but it's a pretty dramatic, well designed and well drawn Batman cover by the artist that is identified as one of the definitive Batman artists of all time.  I think in light of 6 figure Sal Buscema covers, this Adams cover might have been a bargain!

Compared to the Sal B covers, this one is definitely a bargain.  That said, to me, $43.2K seems right where this one should have ended...I'd peg FMV in the $40-45K range, even if it would probably be stickered at $75K+ on a dealer's wall. 

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23 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Gonna respectfully disagree with you on the Conan cover, and with similar respect to the new owner and noting my opinion is subjective, but I kinda hate that cover.  It's a big Conan and all action-y, but where I defend BWS Conan from the Brian Pecks of the world:baiting:lol  the drawing on this one is so atrocious I have no words.  Conan specifically is so malformed, the perspective so off, it's always been at or near dead last on my list.  I'd MUCH rather have paid the the 18k for that very cool half page Conan #2 house ad :headbang:than this cover monstrosity (yeah, I really hate this cover)!  :sick:  So 90k for THIS Conan cover????  Just bonkers.

Like all things, your mileage may vary. 

I'm with you on this, hate the cover, much prefer the house ad. 

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Some very, very strong results: the two Buscema covers, the Conan BWS cover, the Thing pin-up, the Heck Avengers splash....all exceeded my expectations.  But of these pieces I continue to believe that the Defenders 9 cover was the best piece.  Artistically, it has a great layout, two large images in a not over-done pose, impeccable anatomy.  Popularity-wise,, it is from one of the major bronze age storylines.  And of the five featured characters, four are major MCU characters.  I know many people have reservations about Sal, but Sal at his best, like on this cover, is very very good.  I am glad he's getting some love, now there are three covers by him that have fetched more than 85k...not too bad!

Yet...102k is 42k more than my initial estimate of 60k!  Maybe Bronze Age is not really in decline after all,,,,or should we view these two covers as outliers?

 

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24 minutes ago, Carlo M said:

Some very, very strong results: the two Buscema covers, the Conan BWS cover, the Thing pin-up, the Heck Avengers splash....all exceeded my expectations.  But of these pieces I continue to believe that the Defenders 9 cover was the best piece.  Artistically, it has a great layout, two large images in a not over-done pose, impeccable anatomy.  Popularity-wise,, it is from one of the major bronze age storylines.  And of the five featured characters, four are major MCU characters.  I know many people have reservations about Sal, but Sal at his best, like on this cover, is very very good.  I am glad he's getting some love, now there are three covers by him that have fetched more than 85k...not too bad!

Yet...102k is 42k more than my initial estimate of 60k!  Maybe Bronze Age is not really in decline after all,,,,or should we view these two covers as outliers?

 

That Heck Avengers splash shocked the “heck” out of me.

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I’ve always said, Sal is a top 5 comic artist of all time. Flawless passionate work for 6 decades, always staying relevant always giving his best (which was elite). 

 

When you are one of the best, and you stay their longer than anyone in history, you gain fans. Two of his threw down and wanted to lay claim to some of his best work. Nothing shocking about that.

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51 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

Peanuts Sunday did very well, way exceeded my expectation and sold for a lot more than the last time it auctioned.

Take a look at the final results.   It says sold for 50K.  Yet when I was watching the auction live it was closer to 80K.   WTF??

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50 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

I’ve always said, Sal is a top 5 comic artist of all time. Flawless passionate work for 6 decades, always staying relevant always giving his best (which was elite). 

 

When you are one of the best, and you stay their longer than anyone in history, you gain fans. Two of his threw down and wanted to lay claim to some of his best work. Nothing shocking about that.

I'm glad he gives you so much pleasure. I grew up on Sal's work, but for me he was the ultimate house style journeyman artist. Sure, he seemed to put a lot of energy on the page, and he was good at his job, but - top five? I don't see it, but I'm the insufficiently_thoughtful_person who thinks Kirby covers should cost more than Sal Buscema covers. 

This speaks to the problem of figuring out where the future of the hobby is going. I'd always thought the top 5% of stuff would keep going up and the middle 90% would stagnate, but that didn't count on how no two people will ever agree on what the top 5% is. I think 100% of the market is in the top 5% for someone, somewhere.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Carlo M said:

Some very, very strong results: the two Buscema covers, the Conan BWS cover, the Thing pin-up, the Heck Avengers splash....all exceeded my expectations.  But of these pieces I continue to believe that the Defenders 9 cover was the best piece.  Artistically, it has a great layout, two large images in a not over-done pose, impeccable anatomy.  Popularity-wise,, it is from one of the major bronze age storylines.  And of the five featured characters, four are major MCU characters.  I know many people have reservations about Sal, but Sal at his best, like on this cover, is very very good.  I am glad he's getting some love, now there are three covers by him that have fetched more than 85k...not too bad!

Yet...102k is 42k more than my initial estimate of 60k!  Maybe Bronze Age is not really in decline after all,,,,or should we view these two covers as outliers?

I don't have big reservations about Sal, just about this cover at this price. I mean, there are lots of actual Avengers covers which feature 4 major MCU characters, often drawn by artists higher regarded than Sal, and they don't fetch anywhere near $102K. To me, there's no rationalizing it:  it's overpaying, not Sal finally getting his due, not this cover is so great that it deserves it, nothing fundamental to justify it. But, hey, most of us have overpaid for OA for probably no better reason than the buyer did here, so it's all good, not judging... :whistle:

For the avoidance of doubt, I don't think anyone ever said the entire Bronze Age is in decline, more that some portions - mostly niche categories at the moment - have flattened out or started declining, while much of the mainstream stuff is no longer appreciating as quickly as it was. We're probably a long way from an inflection point in BA as a broad category, but, the very, very, very early signs are there for those who care to look.

I mean, if you know a wide age range of collectors, there's a very strong correlation between age and what people are into. I mean, this should be obvious, but, I think most people think that the stalwarts of every generation will have remain in demand, if not increase in popularity, and I think the reality is far more nuanced than that.

While I would of course expect Kirby, for example, to remain popular, I'll bet right now that his art is at least relatively in less demand in the coming years/decades - as I was telling Glen B at SDCC, all the artists that friends/acquaintances in the hobby ask me to look out for break down very much along generational lines, and, since most of my friends in the hobby are very early 50s or younger, guess what - nobody is really a Kirby collector. We may all have a Kirby example or three, but, it's generally Byrne, Adams, Miller, Perez...really nothing older than J. Buscema for the most part. And if you ask people even just, say, 4-6 years younger, it's some of the above artists plus Lee, McFarlane, Mignola, Silvestri, etc. 

Anyone who doesn't believe in the strong generational/demographic/nostalgia component of the hobby is going to be in for a shock over the next couple of decades IMO. 2c

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