August HA Auction 1 1

[The Cimmerians Purse]

17 hours ago, zhamlau said:

I think the best way to explain it is this way. I look at the body of work, the 6 decades of top level production, I see the greatness in that others did not have. I look at the sheer number of main stream material he produced at a high level for generations of fans. I see greatness.

 

I guess it’s the Mark Schultz argument all over, is greatness defined by single great periods of limited production that’s mind blowing? Is he top 5 to you? Is Frank Frazetta or Dave Stevens top 5 American comic artists? Their clearly more talented and produced higher caliber work than any name mentioned here...I ask, are they top 5?

This is why a top 5 is impossible... we nerds can’t even agree with ourselves about the criteria, let alone agree with each other! Lol!

 

 

[Bronty]

The only way, with all possible respect, that Sal B makes my top five is if one of the criteria is that the artist’s first name be Sal

But that’s the beauty of art, we all have our different takes.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Bronty

[The Cimmerians Purse]

2 hours ago, zhamlau said:

 Made my argument, stand by it. I understand many might view average selling price per page as the standard for top 5, nothing wrong with that. I’m just not one of ya.

THAT I agree with! Darwyn Cooke is In my all time for me as a specific example.. and his prices are raising faster than I’d like but not among the most expensive by any stretch. Toth / Williamson who I mentioned before... their best work isn’t that pricy in the grand scheme...because it’s mostly not super heroes. 

[The Cimmerians Purse]

1 hour ago, zhamlau said:

 Oh well not all doom/gloom. Won a few pieces for various collections. Really liked this, bought it for a friend who loves Blackhawk. (Btw if anyone has any 50s-60s pre costume change DC Blackhawk art for sale or trade let me know I’m interested)

That is frigging sweet!

[batman_fan]

2 hours ago, Bronty said:

that's the same book your splash is from isn't it?   Nice book too as Xemnu made some mainstream appearances.

I was looking at it too but passed due to already having won enough for one auction, and the back of Xemnu being turned I didn't like so much.

  Yes it is, I thought it would be cool to have the pair. This was the second time this one was auctioned.  For the life of me I can't remember what it sold for the 1st time but I think it was higher.

[Bronty]

I thought it looked familiar.   I'll look it up

[Bronty]

hmm, wasn't through heritage

[GreatEscape]

18 hours ago, zhamlau said:

Hmm, not a good auction for me. Lost money overall, that first sale hurt and a few lots just died right at or below cost. My first bad auction in a few years. I just always seem to struggle in summer signature sales.

8 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Me too.  I usually do pretty well with my consignments @ HA’s summer auction, but this year I lost money overall.  

A few minor pieces (under $1K) did all right, but I took a 50% hit on items in the $1K-$4K range, and a 20% haircut on items $5K+

Sorry to hear.  Curious, do you guys include HA 20% BP in your est. loss/haircut?   Is buying at $X and then selling for $X with BP mean breakeven or 20% loss?  Not so bad if most of your loss/haircut relates to transaction costs not pricing.

Personally, I liked that Michael Golden Avengers page alot (and highlighted the piece in this thread pre-auction).  I did notice something in composition, however, as 11 of 12 Avenger heads were either cropped or obscured by panel borders, drapes or other heroes....plus the abundance of text paste-ups probably didn't help.  Otherwise, I'd have bid more aggressively as the art is gorgeous.

[batman_fan]

21 minutes ago, Bronty said:

I thought it looked familiar.   I'll look it up

It was CLINK, 9/11/2014, ended at $3k.

[Panelfan1]

38 minutes ago, GreatEscape said:

Sorry to hear.  Curious, do you guys include HA 20% BP in your est. loss/haircut?   Is buying at $X and then selling for $X with BP mean breakeven or 20% loss?  Not so bad if most of your loss/haircut relates to transaction costs not pricing.

A loss is a loss.. whether that's due to auction fees that are very high or other factors - it's the result that matters.  If you get bit by a shark but it doesnt kill you, but then you die due to infection a week later - you are still dead.  It's the result that matters.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Panelfan1

[drdroom]

12 hours ago, tth2 said:

 I love it.  Reminds me of a skit from a British TV comedy show years ago where Indian tourists are visiting the UK and want an authentic British food experience, so they ask the waiter for the food to be made as bland as possible.  

Obviously I would put Sal's big bro John in the list, and Rich Buckler would be in there too.  Curt Swan also comes to mind. 

The 70s was the golden age of soul-less corporate comic art, so I'm sure there'll be a lot of candidates from this era.

John B. had real gifts and flashed them for a couple years, 1968-70ish, so I think that keeps him out of the top 5. I thought of Swan, but went with Plastino because I think Swan kind of invented what I think of as Chamber-of-Commerce Superman, so again, a level of original contribution. Rich Buckler's an interesting nominee. I'm not aware of how large his body of work is. It's important that the artist be ploddingly reliable & consistently uninteresting over decades. How about Jim Mooney? His career ran from the birth of superheroes into the 90s and includes countless forgettable pages of Batman, Supergirl, Spiderman, and many others.

[drdroom]

4 hours ago, zhamlau said:

 Made my argument, stand by it. I understand many might view average selling price per page as the standard for top 5, nothing wrong with that. I’m just not one of ya.

Wait, does anyone use average selling price as the standard? I'm curious. I had the impression most people were applying some combo of talent/influence/important runs. Where I see you differing from most is your emphasis on volume and longevity.

[vodou]

16 minutes ago, drdroom said:

It's important that the artist be ploddingly reliable & consistently uninteresting over decades.

Gray Morrow.

[zhamlau]

26 minutes ago, drdroom said:

Wait, does anyone use average selling price as the standard? I'm curious. I had the impression most people were applying some combo of talent/influence/important runs. Where I see you differing from most is your emphasis on volume and longevity.

Who might I ask than is your top 5?

[Bronty]

I'll go

Kirby

Barks

Adams

Crumb

Miller

[drdroom]

22 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

Who might I ask than is your top 5?

Limiting to the mainstream US comic book, no strip artists, no alt/underground, no foreign, it might be something like:

Kirby, Adams, Wood, Davis, Barks (but I might switch out anyone but Kirby for Eisner, Miller, Ditko or Toth)

Global top five for me might be:

Kirby, Tezuka, Foster, Crumb, Giraud/Moebius

 

[Compson]

On 8/3/2019 at 3:28 PM, drdroom said:

I admire the tenacity of Zhamlau in defending his unpopular (not to say bonkers) Top Five placement of Sal B. The originality of this idea has provoked me to rethink all my assumptions & biases and imagine an alternate reality in which the bland & reliable utility player is held in the highest esteem. Who else would logically be in a Top Five that includes Sal? Here's my tentative Earth-B Top Five, which is open to revision:

Sal Buscema

José Garcia-Lopez

Bob Brown

Al Plastino

Paul Norris

JLGL’s work on stories, especially in the context of DC in the mid-70s, was pretty dynamic.  I don’t know that he earned a place on this list.

[zhamlau]

2 hours ago, drdroom said:

Limiting to the mainstream US comic book, no strip artists, no alt/underground, no foreign, it might be something like:

Kirby, Adams, Wood, Davis, Barks (but I might switch out anyone but Kirby for Eisner, Miller, Ditko or Toth)

Global top five for me might be:

Kirby, Tezuka, Foster, Crumb, Giraud/Moebius

 

Nice, Jack Davis (I assume)and Barks I wouldn’t have on their but I like it. My list would be if called to make it now:

1. Kirby 

2. Adams

3. Miller

4. Wood

5. Sal B

(also might switch out anyone but Adams or Kirby for Kubert, Schomburg, Byrne, or Wrightson)

Sal is easily in my top 10, but like you I can swap him out for others. He gets there on longevity and adaption over 6 decades to always stay relevant and liked by generations of readers. 

[grapeape]

41 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

Nice, Jack Davis (I assume)and Barks I wouldn’t have on their but I like it. My list would be if called to make it now:

1. Kirby 

2. Adams

3. Miller

4. Wood

5. Sal B

(also might switch out anyone but Adams or Kirby for Kubert, Schomburg, Byrne, or Wrightson)

Sal is easily in my top 10, but like you I can swap him out for others. He gets there on longevity and adaption over 6 decades to always stay relevant and liked by generations of readers. 

I admire your case for Sal B who I am a fan of no doubt. I’m willing to keep him in a top ten list with consideration for top 5 entry for the next twenty years.

I’m thinking like the baseball writers that take up the ballots for Who gets into the hall of fame? each year.

lets meet this time each year and see if we can get a consensus to move sal into the top 5. You have Sal there. I’m not there yet. 

Cheers Let’s Go Mets and Lets get Sal into a consensus top 5 here on CGC!

[John Bamber 1973]

I personally think that trying to ascertain a top 5 when you are talking about something that is 8+ decades old and covering so many genres as well as international is almost impossible.

most people would say that Kirby has to be there but then the Europeans would say Herge and Uderzo must be there also.  Japan different again.

So....

why not open it up?  Create a number of categories like:

Story-telling, action, drama, space, fantasy, sci-fi, longevity, strip, etc etc...

I suppose what I’m getting to is that some people might put Charlie Adlard in a top 5 for story-telling when you consider he’s been so consistent with the walking dead.  Eduardo Risso as well.  You would never put J. Scott Campbell or Travis Charest on this list even though they are both great artists.

Space may be Kirby, Moebius

Just my two cents (worth the same as two pence now as well).

Cheers

John