August HA Auction
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51 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

Peanuts Sunday did very well, way exceeded my expectation and sold for a lot more than the last time it auctioned.

Take a look at the final results.   It says sold for 50K.  Yet when I was watching the auction live it was closer to 80K.   WTF??

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50 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

I’ve always said, Sal is a top 5 comic artist of all time. Flawless passionate work for 6 decades, always staying relevant always giving his best (which was elite). 

 

When you are one of the best, and you stay their longer than anyone in history, you gain fans. Two of his threw down and wanted to lay claim to some of his best work. Nothing shocking about that.

I'm glad he gives you so much pleasure. I grew up on Sal's work, but for me he was the ultimate house style journeyman artist. Sure, he seemed to put a lot of energy on the page, and he was good at his job, but - top five? I don't see it, but I'm the insufficiently_thoughtful_person who thinks Kirby covers should cost more than Sal Buscema covers. 

This speaks to the problem of figuring out where the future of the hobby is going. I'd always thought the top 5% of stuff would keep going up and the middle 90% would stagnate, but that didn't count on how no two people will ever agree on what the top 5% is. I think 100% of the market is in the top 5% for someone, somewhere.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Carlo M said:

Some very, very strong results: the two Buscema covers, the Conan BWS cover, the Thing pin-up, the Heck Avengers splash....all exceeded my expectations.  But of these pieces I continue to believe that the Defenders 9 cover was the best piece.  Artistically, it has a great layout, two large images in a not over-done pose, impeccable anatomy.  Popularity-wise,, it is from one of the major bronze age storylines.  And of the five featured characters, four are major MCU characters.  I know many people have reservations about Sal, but Sal at his best, like on this cover, is very very good.  I am glad he's getting some love, now there are three covers by him that have fetched more than 85k...not too bad!

Yet...102k is 42k more than my initial estimate of 60k!  Maybe Bronze Age is not really in decline after all,,,,or should we view these two covers as outliers?

I don't have big reservations about Sal, just about this cover at this price. I mean, there are lots of actual Avengers covers which feature 4 major MCU characters, often drawn by artists higher regarded than Sal, and they don't fetch anywhere near $102K. To me, there's no rationalizing it:  it's overpaying, not Sal finally getting his due, not this cover is so great that it deserves it, nothing fundamental to justify it. But, hey, most of us have overpaid for OA for probably no better reason than the buyer did here, so it's all good, not judging... :whistle:

For the avoidance of doubt, I don't think anyone ever said the entire Bronze Age is in decline, more that some portions - mostly niche categories at the moment - have flattened out or started declining, while much of the mainstream stuff is no longer appreciating as quickly as it was. We're probably a long way from an inflection point in BA as a broad category, but, the very, very, very early signs are there for those who care to look.

I mean, if you know a wide age range of collectors, there's a very strong correlation between age and what people are into. I mean, this should be obvious, but, I think most people think that the stalwarts of every generation will have remain in demand, if not increase in popularity, and I think the reality is far more nuanced than that.

While I would of course expect Kirby, for example, to remain popular, I'll bet right now that his art is at least relatively in less demand in the coming years/decades - as I was telling Glen B at SDCC, all the artists that friends/acquaintances in the hobby ask me to look out for break down very much along generational lines, and, since most of my friends in the hobby are very early 50s or younger, guess what - nobody is really a Kirby collector. We may all have a Kirby example or three, but, it's generally Byrne, Adams, Miller, Perez...really nothing older than J. Buscema for the most part. And if you ask people even just, say, 4-6 years younger, it's some of the above artists plus Lee, McFarlane, Mignola, Silvestri, etc. 

Anyone who doesn't believe in the strong generational/demographic/nostalgia component of the hobby is going to be in for a shock over the next couple of decades IMO. 2c

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1 hour ago, zhamlau said:

I’ve always said, Sal is a top 5 comic artist of all time

:whatthe: :whatthe: :whatthe:

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2 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

Gonna respectfully disagree with you on the Conan cover, and with similar respect to the new owner and noting my opinion is subjective, but I kinda hate that cover.  It's a big Conan and all action-y, but where I defend BWS Conan from the Brian Pecks of the world:baiting:lol  the drawing on this one is so atrocious I have no words.  Conan specifically is so malformed, the perspective so off, it's always been at or near dead last on my list.  I'd MUCH rather have paid the the 18k for that very cool half page Conan #2 house ad :headbang:than this cover monstrosity (yeah, I really hate this cover)!  :sick:  So 90k for THIS Conan cover????  Just bonkers.

Like all things, your mileage may vary. 

We AGREE!!!!!!!

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26 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

While I would of course expect Kirby, for example, to remain popular, I'll bet right now that his art is at least relatively in less demand in the coming years/decades - as I was telling Glen B at SDCC, all the artists that friends/acquaintances in the hobby ask me to look out for break down very much along generational lines, and, since most of my friends in the hobby are very early 50s or younger, guess what - nobody is really a Kirby collector. We may all have a Kirby example or three, but, it's generally Byrne, Adams, Miller, Perez...really nothing older than J. Buscema for the most part. And if you ask people even just, say, 4-6 years younger, it's some of the above artists plus Lee, McFarlane, Mignola, Silvestri, etc. 

Playing Devil's Advocate here: it could also be that your specific example points to what certain folks of a certain age think is most competitive (from themselves but also their cohort), get it first before it's gone vs. how do I see my collection rounding out over the next five years. That doesn't mean nobody (or "less") want any of it (Kirby let's say, or any other category type artist), just that there's a priority to the list, especially for Torpedo/SDCon where people know fresh to market is more likely to appear.

Example: I have $25k to spend and you show me two fairly priced pieces I've never seen offered before a 'nice' Kirby (of which there are many) or a spectacular Mike Zeck (very few)...I'm taking the Zeck because I know of three other people that are right behind me that I need to beat! The Kirby, and any other number of similars...will be there for another day, same money, but at my leisure.

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53 minutes ago, spider9698 said:

Take a look at the final results.   It says sold for 50K.  Yet when I was watching the auction live it was closer to 80K.   WTF??

+1, What the heck happened?

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1 hour ago, vodou said:

Playing Devil's Advocate here: it could also be that your specific example points to what certain folks of a certain age think is most competitive (from themselves but also their cohort), get it first before it's gone vs. how do I see my collection rounding out over the next five years. That doesn't mean nobody (or "less") want any of it (Kirby let's say, or any other category type artist), just that there's a priority to the list, especially for Torpedo/SDCon where people know fresh to market is more likely to appear.

Example: I have $25k to spend and you show me two fairly priced pieces I've never seen offered before a 'nice' Kirby (of which there are many) or a spectacular Mike Zeck (very few)...I'm taking the Zeck because I know of three other people that are right behind me that I need to beat! The Kirby, and any other number of similars...will be there for another day, same money, but at my leisure.

Yeah, that's not it, but, thank you for playing. :foryou:

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I’d love to know how many of the big pieces are going overseas....

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4 hours ago, delekkerste said:
5 hours ago, zhamlau said:

I’ve always said, Sal is a top 5 comic artist of all time

 :whatthe: :whatthe: :whatthe:

He worked at the highest level producing main stream books for 6 decades. He wasn’t being kept around for nostalgia purposes, he was just a really great artist who could pencil and ink in an ever evolving style for 50 years. People from their mid 60s to late teens have seen and liked a book that came out on the shelves in their youth, that he either pencilled or inked

....think about that...

Think of it like baseball. He basically was a .301 hitter who hit 25 HR with 90 runs and RBI’s a year. Pretty good right?  Now imagine that same stat line projected out year after year for 25 years? That would be first ballot hall of fame unanimous vote time. 

That was who he was. He was the David Bowie of Comic artists, The Gordie Howe (maybe not the heights but the longevity and overall consistent great performance). Always working, always changing, always staying relevant, always connecting with the next generation of fans. 

No one is even in the discussion when it comes to longevity and overall high standard of quality.

He could draw as well as anyone, he was equally skilled and pencilling and inking, he worked on merit alone twice as long as nearly anyone else not named Kirby, and he did it quickly with a sense of professionalism. To me, that’s top 5. 

 

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The Sal Buscema Captain America cover with giant Spidey figure was prelimed by Romita (I know because I once owned the prelim, which was a Marie Severin drawing (with a spidey face only) which was whited out and overdrawn by Romita. 

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Did they?  Or did they just want an early defenders cover with all the characters and captain America cover with a big Spider-Man image?   No way to know, but my take on the Buscema and heck prices were that they were part of a greater trend of the specific artist mattering less and the content mattering more.    Now every artist has his fans and you like Sal and that’s great.   As you say there’s a lot to be said for Longevity.    But I do see people analyzing content a lot more when they buy as opposed to just buying anything they can by a certain artist.

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10 hours ago, batman_fan said:

Peanuts Sunday did very well, way exceeded my expectation and sold for a lot more than the last time it auctioned.

You called it!

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On 7/29/2019 at 12:53 PM, Ironmandrd said:

There seem to be some differences in condition of the Kirby Thing pin-up from the pic someone posted of it at SDCC and the pic in the auction--eg creases not shown in the auction

That was me...I took the pic at an angle and you can see HA prettied it up in the catalog vs the true condition. I still love it as one of a kind is my number one motivator.IMG_1379.jpg.a60c4708a37d7495d20ad1bc655dbb5b.jpg

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11 hours ago, delekkerste said:

Yeah, that's not it, but, thank you for playing. :foryou:

Yeah...even I don't buy it ;)

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, zhamlau said:

He worked at the highest level producing main stream books for 6 decades. He wasn’t being kept around for nostalgia purposes, he was just a really great artist who could pencil and ink in an ever evolving style for 50 years. People from their mid 60s to late teens have seen and liked a book that came out on the shelves in their youth, that he either pencilled or inked

....think about that...

Think of it like baseball. He basically was a .301 hitter who hit 25 HR with 90 runs and RBI’s a year. Pretty good right?  Now imagine that same stat line projected out year after year for 25 years? That would be first ballot hall of fame unanimous vote time. 

That was who he was. He was the David Bowie of Comic artists, The Gordie Howe (maybe not the heights but the longevity and overall consistent great performance). Always working, always changing, always staying relevant, always connecting with the next generation of fans. 

No one is even in the discussion when it comes to longevity and overall high standard of quality.

He could draw as well as anyone, he was equally skilled and pencilling and inking, he worked on merit alone twice as long as nearly anyone else not named Kirby, and he did it quickly with a sense of professionalism. To me, that’s top 5. 

 

Just to be clear, we're still talking about Sal Buscema, right?   :insane:

Edited by Bronty

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20 hours ago, batman_fan said:
21 hours ago, Bronty said:

Frazetta still going, speaking of not so great examples

edit 264k

That one shocked the heck out of me.  One of his weakest pieces IMHO

If I weren't told it was a Frazetta, I'd never guess it was a Frazetta.

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12 hours ago, zhamlau said:

 He was the David Bowie of Comic artists,

 

I've been staring at this statement for a while and can only conclude we're thinking of different guys named David Bowie.  hm

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