The "Dreaded Black UPC Line" of 1979 Marvels 0

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, shadroch said:

The box and the line thru it indicate the book is non-returnable. I have no problem with someone referring to it as a "no return" box.

It's not referred to as a "no return" box. The seller calls the line a "return mark", which obviously is not accurate (as you know.)

2 hours ago, shadroch said:

I also see nothing in that listing that implies the lines were added after production.

The seller refers to it as a "return mark." That implies it was added after production, a book that was "marked for return" or "marked because of return."

2 hours ago, shadroch said:

I have no idea what others say, or why people who are so obviously anti- cbcs feel the need to search their forums for bochincha,

Not sure what you're referring to. People have an idea what others say because they observe them saying it.

2 hours ago, shadroch said:

I was getting them wholesale at a third off, pay as you go. Phil offered 50% off but you had to prepay and wait two or three months to get your books, and pay for shipping. On a .25 cent book, I'd pay 18.6 cents from a distributor or .12.5 cents plus shipping from Seagate. Many small dealers just didn't think it worth the effort.

Bud (Plant) mentioned that this was a problem for many retailers until 1977, when he started distributing. Retailers couldn't afford to pay for everything up front. It wasn't until Phil's stranglehold over the Direct market was released that other distributors could start offering books on credit.

2 hours ago, shadroch said:

I believe Carol Kalish convinced Shooter to advocate for the elimination of the dread skip week. She didn't want the rising competition to have week of their own.

Carol was a visionary when it came to the comics industry. She saw things others could not. But she wasn't above being a little cutthroat when necessary.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Just now, RockMyAmadeus said:

2 hours ago, shadroch said:

I also see nothing in that listing that implies the lines were added after production.

The seller refers to it as a "return mark." That implies it was added after production, a book that was "marked for return" or "marked because of return."

And even if the seller meant it was a mark that was printed so it *could* be returned, that's the opposite of the facts. The mark denoted a book that could NOT be returned.

[FlyingDonut]

Where are people on the CBCS board saying this was done by hand? I went on there to laugh at them, but couldn't find the posts.

[RockMyAmadeus]

13 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

Where are people on the CBCS board saying this was done by hand? I went on there to laugh at them, but couldn't find the posts.

This would have been a year or two ago. I don't think there's any way to search that board. The reason it struck me was because they used the same language as the seller does here. It had to be explained that no, that's not a sharpie line drawn through the UPC...it was printed that way. 

I imagine people have been wondering that since the books came out 40 years ago.

[shadroch]

So to sum up this thread- the seller never said the mark is added after the fact and the discussion on the other board was quite awhile ago.

Not at all the impression I got from the original post.

 

Fake news. Mangia.

Edited June 6, 2019 by shadroch

[RockMyAmadeus]

6 hours ago, shadroch said:

So to sum up this thread- the seller never said the mark is added after the fact

What do you imagine "return mark" means...?

6 hours ago, shadroch said:

and the discussion on the other board was quite awhile ago.

Not relevant. As I said before, this misunderstanding has existed for decades.

6 hours ago, shadroch said:

Not at all the impression I got from the original post.

Management is not responsible for mistaken impressions. Sorry. 

6 hours ago, shadroch said:

Fake news. Mangia.

Mangia, mangia! Eat some lasagna!

[Chalwa]

Used to work at a print shop and can verify all that was needed was to change the “K” or black plate with the extra line on it at a predetermined time. Cost for a new plate was negligible and the two variants were bound at different times. All in in one run with a stop to switch plates. 

Hard to believe anyone would think that was drawn with a sharpie!

[mr_highgrade]

On 6/5/2019 at 12:48 PM, shadroch said:

The box and the line thru it indicate the book is non-returnable. I have no problem with someone referring to it as a "no return" box. I also see nothing in that listing that implies the lines were added after production. Given a choice between a copy with a line thru the UPC or one without it, I suspect most casual collectors would go for the one they find most attractive.

I have no idea what others say, or why people who are so obviously anti- cbcs feel the need to search their forums for bochincha,  but I've long told people the difference in the two is one was returnable and one was not. Many shops( including my own) stocked copies of both. In my case, many DC books didn't sell well enough to justify ordering the minimum quality of non returnable copies so I'd get newsstand copies two-three weeks after the direct were released. I'm not sure when the term Direct Market began to be used, but as many comic shops didn't even stock new copies, it certainly wasn't used to describe the comic market. I remember a seminar when Seuling and his Sea Gate crew were trying to convince a very skeptical group of comic dealers that getting a bigger discount in return for  non returns was a better deal. Most shops back then either didn't sell new books or simply allowed newsstand distributors to do all the work and collect a nickel per book sold. It wasnt until books became 50 cents that many retailers saw the advantage of switching. In the early 80s, I was spending $50-$75 a week buying books for future sales.  I was getting them wholesale at a third off, pay as you go. Phil offered 50% off but you had to prepay and wait two or three months to get your books, and pay for shipping. On a .25 cent book, I'd pay 18.6 cents from a distributor or .12.5 cents plus shipping from Seagate. Many small dealers just didn't think it worth the effort.

It wasn't until I opened my first shop(all 350 square feet of it) and began order more that it became worth it.

Comics are monthly, and come out 12 times a year., but there are 52 weeks in a year which meant four weeks a year, Marvel " skipped" printing.  This raked havoc on people's cash flow and scheduling. I was a pretty much a one man shop but others had staff's and making payroll on weeks where you bring in 80% less revenue was stalling people's growth.

I believe Carol Kalish convinced Shooter to advocate for the elimination of the dread skip week. She didn't want the rising competition to have week of their own.

Bill, what was the address of your first shop? 

[shadroch]

It was on James Street in Franklin Square. Across from the municipal parking lot. Maybe #7.