Nominating GEEzusWalks
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3 hours ago, entalmighty1 said:

The fact that he hasn't complied should tell everybody what they already suspected was true.  Whether the seller understands or not, perception is reality.

Yeah and it seems like such an easy thing to do.  He visited the boards 12 hours ago even though no posts since Monday here in these discussions. 

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On 6/11/2019 at 6:03 PM, Columbia Comics said:

Case in point:  you don't just lose a comic worth in excess of $700. 

Here's what I'm having issues with:

The book was posted for sale around 10:30 pm on Saturday evening.  It sat unclaimed until I claimed it around 7:15 am the next day.  So it sat for sale (for $490) for nearly 9 hours before I claimed it.  I wouldn't say I was "Johnny on the spot" by grabbing it before a pricing mistake could be corrected.

Furthermore, after I claimed the book, the seller made a post in the thread that said "ASM 5 sold."  And then he sent me an invoice asking for $508.  Once I paid, within a few hours...I was refunded.  So the book was "lost" between the time I paid and the time you "went to pack it?"

To make matters worse, the seller goes back, edits the thread and removes ALL photos of the book in question.  I was fortunate enough to snap a screenshot and some savvy boardies were able to determine the serial #.

This all doesn't add up.....the seller mispriced a book (I'll admit) but it wasn't egregious (like $120 for a $1200 book), at some point realized the mistake (probably someone pointing it out) and claimed to LOSE the book after being paid...per an invoice HE sent. 

And b/c I have been made whole (which isn't true), he doesn't deserve to be on the PL list?  I think that's exactly the definition of the PL.  And @Logan510, it doesn't boil down to a simple mistake of selling a book he didn't own.  He never once apologized, he never asked for more time to find it...it was lost, I sent refund...washed hands and bye bye.

If the seller cannot even post photos of the book in question, how can you not approve his nomination?  He may as well spit in everyone's face

Yeah, it looks bad but there's no way to prove the seller didn't lose the book other than seeing him sell it down the road.  Editing out the pictures, and refunding very quickly rather than 'looking for the book' just make the optics worse but it is possible he lost the book and I don't think this meets the burden of proof for me.

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21 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

Yeah, it looks bad but there's no way to prove the seller didn't lose the book other than seeing him sell it down the road.  Editing out the pictures, and refunding very quickly rather than 'looking for the book' just make the optics worse but it is possible he lost the book and I don't think this meets the burden of proof for me.

I agree that there is no proving this either way, short of the book appearing, and that was my initial reservation also, and yet the funny thing about items that are lost, is that if they really are lost, there is no way to be certain it won't turn up at any moment, right? At least, there is no reason to think it will be lost a long or short period of time, and that possibly with some persistence, it might be located. Days might pass and suddenly a memory will pop up solving the mystery, maybe, but for the seller to close off all these possibilities in such a short period of time...and you are correct it is far from proof...yet it is still mighty suspicious. If the buyer had, on the basis of this, demanded something onerous or punitive, like money or a credit, I don't think there would have been as straight a path to the PL, and I for one would have argued against it. But Brock limited his demand to a very reasonable and in principle effortless thing, for the seller to repost pictures the seller had already posted. 

Not only has the seller not posted the pictures,  or shown any interest in taking even this minimal step to keep himself in good standing, he has not even bothered to object. That of course may change, but until it does it narrows the possibilities down to either a) the seller doesn't care or b) the seller has not actually "lost" the book. 2c

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32 minutes ago, crassus said:

I agree that there is no proving this either way, short of the book appearing, and that was my initial reservation also, and yet the funny thing about items that are lost, is that if they really are lost, there is no way to be certain it won't turn up at any moment, right? At least, there is no reason to think it will be lost a long or short period of time, and that possibly with some persistence, it might be located. Days might pass and suddenly a memory will pop up solving the mystery, maybe, but for the seller to close off all these possibilities in such a short period of time...and you are correct it is far from proof...yet it is still mighty suspicious. If the buyer had, on the basis of this, demanded something onerous or punitive, like money or a credit, I don't think there would have been as straight a path to the PL, and I for one would have argued against it. But Brock limited his demand to a very reasonable and in principle effortless thing, for the seller to repost pictures the seller had already posted. 

Not only has the seller not posted the pictures,  or shown any interest in taking even this minimal step to keep himself in good standing, he has not even bothered to object. That of course may change, but until it does it narrows the possibilities down to either a) the seller doesn't care or b) the seller has not actually "lost" the book. 2c

The problem is that we've put someone on the probation list without any real proof and/or because he didn't cooperate with the 'investigation'.  I suspect his story is bulldingo but isn't there a possible chance he's not lying?  He could have misplaced it, someone could have robbed him, his wife could have moved it, he could have scanned it a year ago and just got around to listing it now and can't find the book, etc etc.  

Essentially we have suspicious behavior and refusal to cooperate or answer questions and that certain wouldn't be enough to convict him in any court.  I won't deal with this guy but I don't see the bar met for public conviction and shaming which is essentially what the probation thread is.

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Brock,

We no longer have pictures. We deleted pictures to make space on our computer. 

We don't store anything in the cloud or have those pics backed up. Refund was given when we were unable to find book.

We will continue to look.

If we end up finding the book, we will offer to sell the book to you at the same asking price.


 

Edited by GEEzusWalks
Sorry.

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9 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

The problem is that we've put someone on the probation list without any real proof and/or because he didn't cooperate with the 'investigation'.  I suspect his story is bulldingo but isn't there a possible chance he's not lying?  He could have misplaced it, someone could have robbed him, his wife could have moved it, he could have scanned it a year ago and just got around to listing it now and can't find the book, etc etc.  

Essentially we have suspicious behavior and refusal to cooperate or answer questions and that certain wouldn't be enough to convict him in any court.  I won't deal with this guy but I don't see the bar met for public conviction and shaming which is essentially what the probation thread is.

While I don't disagree at all that there is no absolute proof, Dave, I do find it odd that the seller deleted pics from this sales thread while in a previous thread the pics still remain and have been uploaded to the CGC site and not just linked.  If that is how he normally posts pics, then you would think the pics would still be there and the reason stated above about clearing PC space or not using the cloud is moot as they reside on CGC's site.  

Here is a previous thread of the seller with pics still in the thread.

On 5/15/2016 at 9:08 AM, GEEzusWalks said:

Initial Scans. Please PM for larger versions / scans or pics prior to grading and grader notes (If Avail). Thanks again and have a good day. Post stays up 72 hours before being closed.

162361.jpeg.b2381844e1211553f44fc29325942e4d.jpeg

162362.jpeg.db7546499951a20045ef057cc3d87ac7.jpeg

162363.jpg.3eba19f34506717b40327a0f29d9d509.jpg

 

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10 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

The problem is that we've put someone on the probation list without any real proof and/or because he didn't cooperate with the 'investigation'.  I suspect his story is bulldingo but isn't there a possible chance he's not lying?  He could have misplaced it, someone could have robbed him, his wife could have moved it, he could have scanned it a year ago and just got around to listing it now and can't find the book, etc etc.  

Essentially we have suspicious behavior and refusal to cooperate or answer questions and that certain wouldn't be enough to convict him in any court.  I won't deal with this guy but I don't see the bar met for public conviction and shaming which is essentially what the probation thread is.

I've never had any problem with this individual (…. or Brock, for that matter) ….. but I've only sold to him.... very polite and friendly. I've lost books before, it can happen. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)(thumbsu

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8 hours ago, GEEzusWalks said:

Brock,

We no longer have pictures. We deleted pictures to make space on our computer. 

We don't store anything in the cloud or have those pics backed up. Refund was given when we were unable to find book.

We will continue to look.

If we end up finding the book, we will offer to sell the book to you at the same asking price.


 

 

 

For a lost slab....the most important thing to have would be the pictures. Don't you agree?

While what you're saying may be entirely the case, I want to run through a few things with you, just so you can perhaps get a different perspective on how other people may see your words and actions differently. Also, the logic or consistency of some of the words or actions may be understood or perceived in a way that would lead some to not entirely believe what's being put forward by you. 

Leaving aside the fact that images posted to sales threads are uploaded to the CGC site and no longer take up room on your computer so they didn't have to be deleted from the CGC site to begin with, and leaving aside the fact that in your earlier sales threads you left and continue to leave images posted of books without deleting them, lets talk about the decision to delete those photos from your hard drive:

In the midst of losing a slab worth a significant amount of money, instead of leaving the photos posted, instead of posting a new thread to inform people of the missing (perhaps stolen) book with pictures and the serial number showing, instead of first looking for carefully and completely for the book (worth significant dollars, and which has now caused this public issue for yourself) you, instead, made making "space on your computer" a priority? 

On top of making "space on your computer" a priority, you decided that one of the things that just HAD to go were the photos of the slab, worth hundreds of dollars, that mysteriously disappeared, and for which you are now out the book and its value without knowing how, or where it went, or if perhaps someone stole it? 

If the book was say, stolen, from your house and without you knowing until now, you could have used the photos to make a police report, or make a claim against insurance. You could have and should have used the photos to enlist the help of the collecting hobby to keep an eye out for the missing, perhaps stolen, book as the images and the serial number would have been incredibly useful. 

So, back to deleting the images from this site. What was the reason for that decision? Given that you've left up scans and pics of other books from months old sales threads you've run. Why start with this thread including this book? Why do it in the midst of this disagreement? Hopefully you can see that this change in pattern of posting behavior and the timing of the decision to delete the photos, both in the midst of this issue occurring, doesn't shine the most positive light.  

You deleted the one thing that could perhaps help you find the book. Of course it's also the one thing that could help to hang you if you sold it to someone else and the image pops up elsewhere, or if you try to sell it through some other venue. So it's a puzzling choice on your part that, along with the change to deleting all photos you started with this thread, could lead folks to have genuine doubts about what really happened. 

Regardless, I hope the book is located. 

Edited by comix4fun

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I've also only had positive transactions with Mr. L. I've sold a few things to him, he's always been responsive, always been polite. 

Last night I wrote to him and asked about the pictures.  He said he deleted them from his PC. I delete things from my PC all the time. I delete pictures from Photobucket all the time. Do I delete them all? Nope, I delete them at random.

I lost my kindle on the way home last night, I was on a plane. I could swear I put it in the outside pocket of my suitcase, it's not there, nor anywhere in my house and my house is fairly organized and I don't have small children here. I cannot find the darned thing, I plan  to continue looking, but I think it was gremlins...or I was tired and thought I put it in the outside pocket of my carryon, but maybe I didn't.

I asked Mr. L, if he would continue to look for the book and if it was found, if he would promise to sell it to Brock at the same price. I figured that if he could not produce the pictures that that offer would suffice. 

The bottom line is, he DID refund. 

It bothers me that we are so concerned about the potential loss of a profit, that we convict someone here and put them on a probation list with no hope of being removed instead of thinking...maybe this was a mistake?

I know that if I couldn't find a book, I would refund. Maybe I'd wait a day or two and keep writing, but I would refund, there really wouldn't be much more I could do except try to find it and offer it at the same price if I found it.

Edited by skypinkblu
spelling

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15 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

I've also only had positive transactions with Mr. L. I've sold a few things to him, he's always been responsive, always been polite. 

Last night I wrote to him and asked about the pictures.  He said he deleted them from his PC. I delete things from my PC all the time. I delete pictures from Photobucket all the time. Do I delete them all? Nope, I delete them at random.

I lost my kindle on the way home last night, I was on a plane. I could swear I put it in the outside pocket of my suitcase, it's not there, nor anywhere in my house and my house is fairly organized and I don't have small children here. I cannot find the darned thing, I plan  to continue looking, but I think it was gremlins...or I was tired and thought I put it in the outside pocket of my carryon, but maybe I didn't.

I asked Mr. L, if he would continue to look for the book and if it was found, if he would promise to sell it to Brock at the same price. I figured that if he could not produce the pictures that that offer would suffice. 

The bottom line is, he DID refund. 

It bothers me that we are so concerned about the potential loss of a profit, that we convict someone here and put them on a probation list with no hope of being removed instead of thinking...maybe this was a mistake?

I know that if I couldn't find a book, I would refund. Maybe I'd wait a day or two and keep writing, but I would refund, there really wouldn't be much more I could do except try to find it and offer it at the same price if I found it.

Understandable, entirely possible. 

I doubt though, Sha, that if you lost a slab worth several hundred dollars that you would delete all traces of images of the books, while still looking for the books, while the matter is still fresh, in order to make space on your hard drive. 

The reason some people may have a hard time taking the account at 100% face value was because, given the loss of a relatively valuable slab the choice was made to delete the image from the CGC site (images are uploaded) and from their hard drive, along with the timing of doing so. 

In the midst of a disagreement, or a potential theft of your property (at least missing), I have an even harder time believe that you'd wipe all trace of images to that particular item from all sources, or at random. 

That's where the issue for some seems to come up, and it doesn't seem unreasonable to have doubts as the logic doesn't seem to line up, while still being possibly innocent.

Edited by comix4fun

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Deleting a picture to make room on a hard drive? Come on folks. Is this 1997? Even your Wal-mart specials have HALF A TERABYTE of storage space. 

...and you just don't lose a comic book worth several hundred bucks. I don't buy any of this. 

Edited by newshane

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3 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

I doubt though, Sha, that if you lost a slab worth several hundred dollars that you would delete all traces of images of the books in order to make space. 

I'm assuming, and we all know what that word entails, that he deleted the pictures BEFORE he realized he lost the book. If it happened the other way that of course is different.

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1 minute ago, newshane said:

Deleting a picture to make room on a hard drive? Come on folks. Is this 1997? Even your Wal-mart specials have HALF A TERABYTE of storage space. 

I have a huge amount of stuff on dropbox with a huge amount of space, the videos I keep take up tons of room. I still delete pictures, lol. I just did that the other day. I find when I have too many my search results are too big.  Then again, I guess I remember 1997;)

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2 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

I have a huge amount of stuff on dropbox with a huge amount of space, the videos I keep take up tons of room. I still delete pictures, lol. I just did that the other day. I find when I have too many my search results are too big.  Then again, I guess I remember 1997;)

The picture in question appears to be a whopping 160KB. 

That was a lot of room back in 1989. 

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9 hours ago, GEEzusWalks said:

Brock,

We no longer have pictures. We deleted pictures to make space on our computer. 

We don't store anything in the cloud or have those pics backed up. Refund was given when we were unable to find book.

We will continue to look.

If we end up finding the book, we will offer to sell the book to you at the same asking price.


 

@GEEzusWalks

Were you the person who submitted the book? Is there any chance you kept the number on the slab? Something on a spreadsheet, a note? 

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4 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

I understand Chris, but things happen. I have never in my life lost an electronic device, phone, my keys...nothing like that. I HAVE misplaced comic books.  I have found them. Once or twice a while afterward.

I have absolutely randomly deleted pictures, especially when I'm in a rush. I'm not saying I'd bet my house on the fact that was happened, but I will say it's not impossible.

Again, what bothers me is the emphasis on cost. The book was a bargain? The book was sitting there for a day? If someone was going to write to tell him that he sold it too cheap, why wait a day to do that?

Is Brock really out anything except the potential to make money off a purchase he made here? He was refunded the entire amount he paid. 


It's the money part that bothers me, people seem to be focused on the fact that someone might have made a profit on the purchase and that opportunity was lost. This was not a rare book, if it's for Brock's collection he certainly could find another copy.

If this was a rare Fox and someone who had never sold a book and was dying for this one copy to complete their collection bought it and was disappointed, I might offer to go help Mr L look for the book, but it was a common issue. There really was no material loss that I see except the potential to make a profit.

I'd prefer to see the good in people when possible, my transactions with Mr L have all been good, so I'm speaking up for him. COULD this be nefarious? Sure...but I don't want to hang someone for "could have".

As for Brock's loss, I'm sorry he was disappointed, I wish I had a magic wand, but in the long run, I'm happy there was no physical damage to anyone.

I'd like to see Mr.L removed from the probation list, because at this point it seems impossible for him to make any other offers other than offering Brock the what? $200 POTENTIAL profit? and I don't see that as being fair at all... I don't see people ever offering sellers the $200 potential loss they took.

 If people chose not to believe him, that's fine, then put him on your "private" lists.

 

I was leaving all the details and particulars of the deal itself aside and just went right to something that, I think, is the cause of the doubts people are expressing towards the seller. 

They aren't unreasonable doubts to have, given the small amount of information we've been given thus far. That's all. 

Not saying that losing a book is impossible. Not saying that having a book stolen is impossible. It's the combination of the loss of the book, the timing of the discovery and the concurrent timing of the hard drive and thread deletion, along with explanations that are relatively scant and spread out, the lead folks to have reasonable doubts that the entire picture has been painted clearly. 

Prioritizing hard drive space over ripping the house apart to find something worth $500+ is questionable. I've lost things that are worth far less and it's sent me down a rabbit hole of digging through boxes and storage with little mind to food, water or anything else...much less hard drive maintenance. That the pics of the missing book were part of it the purge is just something worthy of the doubt it creates. 

So I know things happen. But there were actions taken, not out of the control of the seller, and subsequent to the sale/no sale/loss that raise a reasonable question as to how completely any of us know what occurred. 

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