Is CGC out of interest for most comic book stores? 0

[mec3437]

32 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I actually load up Ebay when I'm in the store. I wonder if that peeves dealers off?

Do you think its safe to say that there is more profit in just online sales? I know a guy who sells online,has about 500 long boxes,knows his entire inventory,and will answer any questions you ask. Plus you know exactly what your getting from him by checking his feedback. For the most part this is a solid community of collectors and sellers,nobody is going to go on Ebay and slander someone's name.

A seller has to pay about 17% in fees online for every sale,which somewhat explains a bit of markup on raws,also pays for packaging to ship the product  whereas a store owner has to pay his employees hourly,has to pay rent,hydro ect ect. And also the online seller can sit on a product like a slab alot longer.

Nostalgia aside,it makes sense to me to sell strictly online. Than again I know stores that do both,and as a matter of fact the stuff they sell online,they dont have for sale in store 

I'll let you in on a little secret, my man.  Store owners also look at ebay sold listings.  They know their clientele better than you do.  Is the seller corndog-comics?

[Bookery]

36 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Nostalgia aside,it makes sense to me to sell strictly online. 

It depends.  Everyone has their own business model.  I don't like selling on eBay, but for me it's also a matter of time.  I put in 50-60 hours per week at the store, and most evenings are spent working on my reference guides.  The few hours I have on my day off are spent like most folks do -- grocery shopping, yard work, etc.  My staff is similarly stretched pretty thin right now.  But there's no doubt the brick-and-mortar model is declining... even for big and established stores.

However... I do take issue with how a lot of people here view eBay.  Apparently, it's a magic world... most here pan shops because they are "too expensive" and they can get far better "bargains" on eBay.  Then they'll turn around and tell me I should be selling more on eBay in order to get top value and "not leave dollars on the table".  News flash... it can't be both... at least not consistently.  For the stuff I specialize in, I don't find eBay very useful.*  Gold and silver-age books are almost always way over-priced and generally handled as Buy It Now Only.  Deals may be had through the auctions... which are rare... but that's because buyers are wary of untested sellers.  Plus, the amount of attempted fraud on eBay is mind-boggling.  If you're buying modern-era slabbed books, then you can probably get some deals because there are so many copies to choose from.

* eBay probably works best for collectors who stick to established dealers whose grading standards and practices are already known.  But most won't do this... they look for that "amazing deal" from some "original owner" who is "not a professional grader but...".  I understand many live in areas without decent shops or nearby conventions and have few other options.  But if you are in an area where you can view lots of material in person, I can't see eBay (the above qualifier aside) being all that attractive for buying collectibles.

[Hollywood1892]

29 minutes ago, mec3437 said:

I'll let you in on a little secret, my man.  Store owners also look at ebay sold listings.  They know their clientele better than you do.  Is the seller corndog-comics?

No

But that's funny nonetheless 

[Hollywood1892]

13 minutes ago, Bookery said:

It depends.  Everyone has their own business model.  I don't like selling on eBay, but for me it's also a matter of time.  I put in 50-60 hours per week at the store, and most evenings are spent working on my reference guides.  The few hours I have on my day off are spent like most folks do -- grocery shopping, yard work, etc.  My staff is similarly stretched pretty thin right now.  But there's no doubt the brick-and-mortar model is declining... even for big and established stores.

However... I do take issue with how a lot of people here view eBay.  Apparently, it's a magic world... most here pan shops because they are "too expensive" and they can get far better "bargains" on eBay.  Then they'll turn around and tell me I should be selling more on eBay in order to get top value and "not leave dollars on the table".  News flash... it can't be both... at least not consistently.  For the stuff I specialize in, I don't find eBay very useful.*  Gold and silver-age books are almost always way over-priced and generally handled as Buy It Now Only.  Deals may be had through the auctions... which are rare... but that's because buyers are wary of untested sellers.  Plus, the amount of attempted fraud on eBay is mind-boggling.  If you're buying modern-era slabbed books, then you can probably get some deals because there are so many copies to choose from.

* eBay probably works best for collectors who stick to established dealers whose grading standards and practices are already known.  But most won't do this... they look for that "amazing deal" from some "original owner" who is "not a professional grader but...".  I understand many live in areas without decent shops or nearby conventions and have few other options.  But if you are in an area where you can view lots of material in person, I can't see eBay (the above qualifier aside) being all that attractive for buying collectibles.

I think if a buyer pays asking price on Ebay than they are in trouble. I like the bartering but you can do that in stores too.

It's the shipping and handling on Ebay and import charges that really mess up the buyer.

[theCapraAegagrus]

A dictionary would help...

[F For Fake]

I don't think any of the local shops around here deal with slabbed books at all. I know they'll buy them from people the same way they'd buy any other back issues, but they don't put a premium on them when they resell them, and they don't submit their own books for slabbing. So once in a blue moon they'll have a slabbed book for sale, but its just a copy they picked up in a collection.  As has been pointed out, slabbing is a tiny part of the overall comics collecting market. Most shops aren't looking to squeeze every penny out of every book; instead, they're looking to turn inventory over as quickly as possible. They're not museums. And these shops have been open for decades, so I guess they know their clientele.

[lou_fine]

13 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

13 hours ago, kav said:

Never seen a slabbed book in a comics shop, myself.

Serious?

Absolutely no surprise as the LCS's cater to a completely different type of clientale and its the ones who generally are not interested in purchasing slabbed books. 

Although I have seen slabs in my LCS, I have never seen anybody asked to look at one, let alone actually buy one.

Same thing with the smaller local conventions where it's completely dominated by raw books and nobody is really interested at all in purchasing slabbed books.

Personally I am interested in being able to actually touch and check out a book in those types of venues, especially since they deal in the latest hot books which everybody else has and definitely not worth paying for a slabbed copy.   The only real place where I would be interested in slabbed books would be with the major auction houses since they deal in vintage collectible books where it is beneficial to have a resto check and 3rd party independent grading.  

[Phicks]

6 hours ago, Bookery said:

* The caveat to the above is on cheaper books.  A CGC book whose current value is $25-$30 is probably only worth about $5 raw, because the majority of that $25 value comes from the cost of having the book slabbed itself.

I respectfully disagree,   The slabbed version is still only worth $5 to me. 

[Hollywood1892]

6 hours ago, Bookery said:

 

* The caveat to the above is on cheaper books.  A CGC book whose current value is $25-$30 is probably only worth about $5 raw, because the majority of that $25 value comes from the cost of having the book slabbed itself.

I would say the window for that is for slabbed books all the way up to the $100.00 range. Not much profit,if at all in that window.

For example immortal hulk,venom 3 

Nice books,but the slab is alot of that value. I mean obviously it is past cover price,but not much more.

[kav]

7 hours ago, Bookery said:

I suppose if the $300k is all $1-stock, then $30k is a fair offer.  Otherwise, your LCS 2 guy is also a crook!  I know there are still some dealers able to get good collectibles for 10-cents on the dollar... but I think in this day and age it's a lot rarer then folks on here tend to believe.  For most dealers, the margin on decent collectibles is pretty small.   A payout of 60% - 70% on a mid-grade key is likely, and if you are not in a major metropolitan area, you'll probably also knock off 10-15% on the other end when you sell.  Also factor in that the buyer is apt to use a credit card, costing you another 2-3%.  When you realize that you can double your money on a new-release comic, and order exactly what you can sell... or on RPGs do likewise AND re-order at will... you'll understand why a lot of small shops don't deal in vintage material, slabbed or otherwise.  Those of us that do deal in them do so because we like them... but again, you have to get big enough that you can turn a large quantity of material to make it feasible.  There are dealers like Dale who buy a lot of material from other dealers.  He picks them up in smaller markets and takes them to large conventions in big cities.  But his mark-up is not going to be huge, and his overhead with table fees and travel costs is large.  He and other dealers like him make it work by doing the work... a lot of it.  

The dealer who gets great stuff by ripping off his customers is not a myth... but in the modern environment with all of the knowledge and info out there about comics, and all of the myriad types of competition, with each passing year it gets closer to being one.

 How can he be a crook when he explained what the books were worth and said all he can pay is 30K and the guy accepted??  I'm not tracking.

Edited June 14, 2019 by kav

[Hollywood1892]

8 minutes ago, kav said:

 How can he be a crook when he explained what the books were worth and said all he can pay is 30K and the guy accepted??  I'm not tracking.

I agree

I understand that's just speculating.

I've seen sellers sell comics at %50 fair market value just to get rid of them.

[kav]

Just now, Hollywood1892 said:

I agree

I understand that's just speculating.

I've seen sellers sell comics at %50 fair market value just to get rid of them.

A big collection of valuable books is a chore to sell if someone got them free and just wants the quick sale that doesnt equal crook.

[Hollywood1892]

9 minutes ago, kav said:

A big collection of valuable books is a chore to sell if someone got them free and just wants the quick sale that doesnt equal crook.

As I have said numerous times you are the voice of reason

I was agreeing with you previously. I just have a headache and my sentence structure is fragmented because of it. Sorry

Edited June 14, 2019 by Hollywood1892
Typos

[Crops068]

7 hours ago, kav said:

A big collection of valuable books is a chore to sell if someone got them free and just wants the quick sale that doesnt equal crook.

I absolutely agree with this. 

Just because the collection is valued at $300k doesn't mean the person that now owns them has the time or wants to put in the effort to sell them for the estimated $300k value.

The shop owner gave the information to the owner and who is the say the comic owner didn't throw out the $30k price just to unload it and be done with it?

Immediately saying the LCS owner is a crook does not seem the right way to do it if he indeed handled it in a respectful and honest way.

"hey I know these books are valued at $300k, but I can't pay that much, most I can do is $30k for the lot" something like that and the seller accepted.  It was an informed decision, the facts were there.

Now the LCS owner has to take the time and effort to start getting his money back.  It could take him years to recoup, we have no idea to be honest.

[ADAMANTIUM]

2 minutes ago, Crops068 said:

I absolutely agree with this. 

Just because the collection is valued at $300k doesn't mean the person that now owns them has the time or wants to put in the effort to sell them for the estimated $300k value.

The shop owner gave the information to the owner and who is the say the comic owner didn't throw out the $30k price just to unload it and be done with it?

Immediately saying the LCS owner is a crook does not seem the right way to do it if he indeed handled it in a respectful and honest way.

"hey I know these books are valued at $300k, but I can't pay that much, most I can do is $30k for the lot" something like that and the seller accepted.  It was an informed decision, the facts were there.

Now the LCS owner has to take the time and effort to start getting his money back.  It could take him years to recoup, we have no idea to be honest.

True that!

Also the LCS has knowledge the person coming in doesn't have IN ORDER to make that $300 K. Just because the LCS owner could make that Mich doesn't mean an average person would be able to...

Whether it is selling here for top dollar, eslabbing a few etc...

A simple "I can't afford what they're worth" leaves the seller exactly where they were when they came in...

If they found that in a basement, have full time employment, money for nothing at even $30,000 sounds like a dream!

[kav]

10 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

True that!

Also the LCS has knowledge the person coming in doesn't have IN ORDER to make that $300 K. Just because the LCS owner could make that Mich doesn't mean an average person would be able to...

Whether it is selling here for top dollar, eslabbing a few etc...

A simple "I can't afford what they're worth" leaves the seller exactly where they were when they came in...

If they found that in a basement, have full time employment, money for nothing at even $30,000 sounds like a dream!

exactly and keep in mind other store didnt say squat about what they were worth just offered 5K.  Not sure how it would go after that but even if he said ok 10K sorry even if it thats a fair offer that means initially you tried to screw me-I'll get a 2nd opinion now-

[kav]

7 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

As I have said numerous times you are the voice of reason

[Ride the Tiger]

My LCS since i'm from Chicago is one of the Graham Cracker stores. Don't even know how many there are there days maybe 6????? Anyways I noticed not all the GC stores have the same setup. Some have a gigantic back issue area with dozens of long boxes while others carry mostly current books. The store I frequent has some CGC books on the wall along with some raw key books. I talked to the fellow behind the counter about graded comics but he admitted he had no knowledge in the world of encapsulated books. The prices were pretty inflated and i'm not sure if there was room to deal. Gonna assume no. Another store in the chain last time I visited had hardly any key books behind the counter and none of the slabbed. I guess its what sells in each neighborhood that determines the stock or lack of when it comes to CGC'd books.

[Bookery]

19 hours ago, kav said:

 How can he be a crook when he explained what the books were worth and said all he can pay is 30K and the guy accepted??  I'm not tracking.

You are right... I was being a bit dramatic to emphasize I thought it was odd to use a 10% payout as being an example of the "noble" dealer.  But I should know better than to respond to extreme hypotheticals.  However, I did say that $30k might be reasonable, or more than reasonable,  if we're talking pure dollar-box bulk.  The example given gave us no clue as to the quality of the books.  However, if this was a quality collection worth every penny of its $300k, it shouldn't matter that the dealer has only $30k in his pocket, because he could make some calls and bring in some other dealers to help bundle together a fair offer.  AND... as long as we're dealing in silly hypotheticals, wouldn't someone offering to accept $30k AFTER you've informed them they are worth $300k seem a bit suspicious?  If their situation is truly desperate, couldn't the dealer pay them $30k up front with an agreement to pay a balance (of a fair offer) later after he'd had a chance to sell some of the books?  Wouldn't that be the "more honest" position?  Frankly... in this hypothetical situation, dealers who have been around know that there is about a 95% chance these books are stolen.  The "honest" dealer would get the license plate and any other data he could get, walk away from the collection, and contact the police afterward so that when the report of stolen goods comes in, they are already prepared.  How's that for a hypothetical response! 

[Bookery]

12 hours ago, Crops068 said:

I absolutely agree with this. 

Just because the collection is valued at $300k doesn't mean the person that now owns them has the time or wants to put in the effort to sell them for the estimated $300k value.

Nobody suggested that the person should hold out for the full $300k.  Assuming we're talking about a large collection (not just a single copy of Action #1), nobody is going to see a net $300k out of this... not the seller, not the dealer, nobody.  It costs money to make money.  Whether you sell them yourself or go through a dealer, somebody is going to have to pay overhead, eBay fees, PayPal fees, convention fees, travel expenses, advertising, and ultimately, the discounting of what's left after the hot stuff sells.