PGX 9.6 Avengers #4 - What Would CGC Do?
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4 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:
8 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Is anyone else wondering where the "S" is on Stan? signed "Totally"....

The S is there, as is the t. It starts after the second 'e' in Lee, and backtracks through what was later penned as the rest of the signature. It's through the shield so difficult to first see.

So it says, "Toodles"? :baiting:

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, jason danziger said:

I found this Avengers #4, PGX 9.6 that was signed by Stan Lee.  It feels like this would come back lower from CGC, but I wanted to see just how low, as it may still be a good deal (a local person is selling it for $4,000).

Any help is greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Let's get down to the nuts and bolts. Have you seen this book physically? Held it in your hand? Are these your images, or his, sent to you.

I ask, because if this is a cash and carry situation, and you will be receiving exactly what is pictured without any tampering of the slab detectible in person, then although resubmission to CGC would be ill-advised, buying this for $4000, cash an carry, as is, and checked carefully to assure that you are buying an unrestored signature series PGX 9.6 graded, original Avengers #4, will make you money. You'll get a minimum of anywhere between $5500 and $7500 for this on ebay, run as an open auction, no reserve and I'm being extremely conservative in my estimate. This could go as high as $12,000, maybe $15,000 if you get lucky and fight over it, so this is an excellent money making opportunity for you, that although PGX graded, has a potentially fantastic upside without much risk at $4000 in. That's my opinion as far as a local purchase, cash and carry for this exact item pictured goes.

Edited by James J Johnson

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6 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

So it says, "Toodles"? :baiting:

To tell you the truth, I don't like the signature much at all for 2013. Looks more like those of his last two years, when one or more characters could be well outside the norm.

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4 hours ago, jason danziger said:

I found this Avengers #4, PGX 9.6 that was signed by Stan Lee.  It feels like this would come back lower from CGC, but I wanted to see just how low, as it may still be a good deal (a local person is selling it for $4,000).

Any help is greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

1.jpg

 

 

I'd wager good dollars that the right edge is trimmed.  Look at the box around Sub-Mariner, then compare it to a legit blue or yellow label CGC copy.

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6 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Let's get down to the nuts and bolts. Have you seen this book physically? Held it in your hand? Are these your images, or his, sent to you.

I ask, because if this is a cash and carry situation, and you will be receiving exactly what is pictured without any tampering of the slab detectible in person, then although resubmission to CGC would be ill-advised, buying this for $4000, cash an carry, as is, and checked carefully to assure that you are buying an unrestored signature series PGX 9.6 graded, original Avengers #4, will make you money. You'll get a minimum of anywhere between $5500 and $7500 for this on ebay, run as an open auction, no reserve and I'm being extremely conservative in my estimate. This could go as high as $12,000, maybe $15,000 if you get lucky and fight over it, so this is an excellent money making opportunity for you, that although PGX graded, has a potentially fantastic upside without much risk at $4000 in. That's my opinion as far as a local purchase, cash and carry for this exact item pictured goes.

...maybe. I dunno, do the people who have $12-$15k to throw around on keys actually spend that much on PGX books? I'd think anyone with that kind of money to spend would be wary of the label. Just my two cents, of course. I'd still avoid it altogether, as there would still be a chance of headaches down the road. Even in a cash and carry situation, I wouldn't want some knucklehead tracking me down at a show and giving me a blackjack across the nape of my neck because he figured out that PGX = poop.

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8 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

The S is there, as is the t. It starts after the second 'e' in Lee, and backtracks through what was later penned as the rest of the signature. It's through the shield so difficult to first see.

 

1 minute ago, James J Johnson said:

To tell you the truth, I don't like the signature much at all for 2013. Looks more like those of his last two years, when one or more characters could be well outside the norm.

Right? I was just ribbing, the way you describe it, sounds like it say's, "Tan Lees"!!! no happy ending all the way around (: 

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5 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

I'd wager good dollars that the right edge is trimmed.  Look at the box around Sub-Mariner, then compare it to a legit blue or yellow label CGC copy.

Probably the bottom edge too.  There's seven wraps around Thor's leg in the PGX "9.6", there are eight in the copy I'm using as a reference from the Reece's website:

AVENGERS_4_CGC_9_4_CR_OW_PAGES_3.jpe

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1 minute ago, mattn792 said:

I'd wager good dollars that the right edge is trimmed.  Look at the box around Sub-Mariner, then compare it to a legit blue or yellow label CGC copy.

That right edge is a trigger, isn't it? I was going to mention that although the left to right size of this book is very small, so much so that it would be difficult enough to find another CGC universal #4 similarly as small as this that I wouldn't even bother to look. But, I looked very closely at the right edge and I can't see a tell for trim so I decided not to discuss it. If I could see a feature of the edge itself that speaks to trim, aside from the book being small left to right for Avengers 4s, I'd have been all over it.

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9 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

...maybe. I dunno, do the people who have $12-$15k to throw around on keys actually spend that much on PGX books? I'd think anyone with that kind of money to spend would be wary of the label. Just my two cents, of course. I'd still avoid it altogether, as there would still be a chance of headaches down the road. Even in a cash and carry situation, I wouldn't want some knucklehead tracking me down at a show and giving me a blackjack across the nape of my neck because he figured out that PGX = poop.

This is $5.5 to 7.5Gs on ebay, as is, the bottom rung on the ladder as far as results will go. You get two stubborn bulls going head to head? They see GP for Avengers 4 9.6 hovering in the $25,000 range CGC graded? $12.5 is a bargain for a signed one, right? This is what makes this an easy lay up for a profit at $4000. Which begs the question, why does the seller only want $4000? And that's a more important question as to whether or not the right is trimmed.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

This is $5.5 to 7.5Gs on ebay, as is, the bottom rung on the ladder as far as results will go. You get two stubborn bulls going head to head? They see GP for Avengers 4 9.6 hovering in the $25,000 range CGC graded? $12.5 is a bargain for a signed one, right? This is what makes this an easy lay up for a profit at $4000. Which begs the question, why does the seller only want $4000? And that's a more important question as to whether or not the right is trimmed.

Bottom edge too :gossip:

Edited by mattn792

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16 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

I'd wager good dollars that the right edge is trimmed.  Look at the box around Sub-Mariner, then compare it to a legit blue or yellow label CGC copy.

That's exactly what I'm seeing. The front cover is already wrapping a little to the back AND the box still gets cut off? That can only be because of trimming.

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9 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

Probably the bottom edge too.  There's seven wraps around Thor's leg in the PGX "9.6", there are eight in the copy I'm using as a reference from the Reece's website:

AVENGERS_4_CGC_9_4_CR_OW_PAGES_3.jpe

It's close enough to be chalked up to size tolerances. And with the toning/foxing/possible moisture that exists on the bottom edge of the PGX copy, trimming that edge would probably result in a disaster that a la All_Things_Comics would probably result in the bottom edge having to be trimmed to up to Thor's right foot to cut off the crumbling from trying to execute too thin a trim on paper turning brittle

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1 minute ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

That's exactly what I'm seeing. The front cover is already wrapping a little to the back AND the box still gets cut off? That can only be because of trimming.

Yes. Small. But as history shows, size is not the determining factor of trim and there's just no evidence that I can spot on the right edge to point it out to. The scan is inconclusive as the edge looks normal in it. A different view, the book in person, may be a different story, but this is one of those scans that don't offer direct evidence of it other than size alone. Coin flip. Can't handicap it better than 50/50 based on this flip.

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Posted (edited)

My whole point boils down to one thing.

Buy it for $4000 and money will be made. That's a lock. The label assures that, even though in my opinion a PGX label may as well be blank.

Whether it's trimmed or not, whether Stan really signed it, whether there's no disclosure on restoration, if any, is a moot point. On this forum, we all know the difference between grading services and the potential for disaster that can exist if buying from #3 and cross submitting to #1 for the truth.

But if we just assess this from the aspect of, "Is this a good purchase for $4000?", most definitely, my answer is yes, strictly from a profit view. IMO, a PGX slabbed item is a hot potato, but there's a big market for spuds. So my concern and only concern is "why only $4000?" Does the seller own a PC? Have internet access?

Edited by James J Johnson

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2 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

My whole point boils down to one thing.

Buy it for $4000 and money will be made. That's a lock. The label assures that, even though in my opinion a PGX label may as well be blank.

Whether it's trimmed or not, whether Stan really signed it, whether there's no disclosure on restoration, if any, is a moot point. On this forum, we all know the difference between grading services and the potential for disaster that can exist if buying from #3 and cross submitting to #1 for the truth.

But if we just assess this from the aspect of, "Is this a good purchase for $4000?", most definitely, my answer is yes, strictly from a profit view. IMO, a PGX slabbed item is a hot potato, but there's a big market for spuds. So my concern and only concern is "why only $4000?" Does the seller own a PC? Have internet access?

I think this is the largest worry.  I would thoroughly inspect that book in the slab before purchase.  Also make sure however you pay for it there is some sort of buyer protection, in case it is a fake.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Crops068 said:

I think this is the largest worry.  I would thoroughly inspect that book in the slab before purchase.  Also make sure however you pay for it there is some sort of buyer protection, in case it is a fake.

That spotty toning and dust shadows look original. I don't think it being a repro is much of a worry. And the colors are unmistakably original. Scans are clear enough about that.

Edited by James J Johnson

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Posted (edited)

Forget about undisclosed restoration what about UNDISCLOSED MISSING PAGES as has happened in the past???

Edited by kav

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1 minute ago, kav said:

Forget about undisclosed restoration what about UNDISCLOSED MISSING PAGES as has happened in the past with the notorious PGX???

Now that you're here, I just wonder if this is the same PGX 9.6sig series Lee that DJBrady4u (Ryan Elliott) was asking about $38,000 for on ebay back around 2013/2014? I have an image someplace that I have to look for.

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1 minute ago, James J Johnson said:

Now that you're here, I just wonder if this is the same PGX 9.6sig series Lee that DJBrady4u (Ryan Elliott) was asking about $38,000 for on ebay back around 2013/2014? I have an image someplace that I have to look for.

:whatthe:

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