Clairmont X Men/ Miller Daredevil question ?? 1 1

[HouseofComics.Com]

X-Men recent back issues were 25% of my con sales in the late 1985 to mid 1987 period. That's just selling back issues of the one title from say 150 to 200. Couldn't really get earlier issues! There were lots of new people coming in who actually needed stuff from the past few years.

[delekkerste]

Speaking of Claremont X-Men, when did it go off the rails?  I was recently offered some original art from early in Marc Silvestri's artistic run on Uncanny X-Men; I declined, stating that I didn't collect any Uncanny X-Men art after issue #213, as the whole post-Mutant Massacre Outback/Gateway/Siege Perilous/Reavers stuff is where I think Claremont's plots just got too convoluted for me (though, there were a few exceptions, to be sure).  

[sfcityduck]

16 hours ago, Sal said:

 

for me, Wolverine became a really interesting person extemporaneously with 162, the issue where he fights off the Brood infection in what is essentially a solo story.

 

I actually agree with RMA when he states that "Wolverine was NOT *THE* big draw for the X-Men until the late 80s (generally, 1986 and beyond)," but only because I think prior to the time period the draw was the team as a whole.

Byrne felt an affinity for Wolverine from the start.  And the scripts started to make Wolverine a really interesting character fairly early into the Claremont/Byrne/Austin run with the portrayal of Wolverine as a wild animal-like barely controlled killer in the Savage Land arc.  And let's not forget the infamous and shocking murder of the guard scene.Wolverine was rapidly becoming many fans "favorite X-Men" after this seminal scent in X-Men 132:

And the following story in X-Men 133:

 

He was definitely an interesting and fan favorite character by then.

Edited June 26, 2019 by sfcityduck

[sfcityduck]

16 hours ago, Sal said:

did the Eagle award badge get put on any other books? I feel like there were some but can't remember any.

 

Not that I know of.  

[Logan510]

2 hours ago, delekkerste said:

Speaking of Claremont X-Men, when did it go off the rails?  I was recently offered some original art from early in Marc Silvestri's artistic run on Uncanny X-Men; I declined, stating that I didn't collect any Uncanny X-Men art after issue #213, as the whole post-Mutant Massacre Outback/Gateway/Siege Perilous/Reavers stuff is where I think Claremont's plots just got too convoluted for me (though, there were a few exceptions, to be sure).  

I would say that era is when I started to lose interest. Little bit of a spike for me when Jim Lee came aboard but I recall at the time I was mostly in a "waiting for it to get good again" phase.

By the time I actually stopped reading it in 2000-2001 the characters were so far afield from what drew me to the book I just dropped it.

Not an easy decision since I'd been reading the book since 1978 or so.

[Brian48]

17 hours ago, Sal said:

did the Eagle award badge get put on any other books? I feel like there were some but can't remember any.

The Eagle appeared on several books.  Bsides X-Men, there were Micronauts, John Carter, and Conan to name a few.  These were the titles I bought.

[ADAMANTIUM]

1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

I actually agree with RMA when he states that "Wolverine was NOT *THE* big draw for the X-Men until the late 80s (generally, 1986 and beyond)," but only because I think prior to the time period the draw was the team as a whole.

Byrne felt an affinity for Wolverine from the start.  And the scripts started to make Wolverine a really interesting character fairly early into the Claremont/Byrne/Austin run with the portrayal of Wolverine as a wild animal-like barely controlled killer in the Savage Land arc.  And let's not forget the infamous and shocking murder of the guard scene.Wolverine was rapidly becoming many fans "favorite X-Men" after this seminal scent in X-Men 132:

And the following story in X-Men 133:

 

He was definitely an interesting and fan favorite character by then.

I'll never dance with another, cause I saw him stand'n there 

[Brian48]

The timing was also right for Wolverine.  This was the start of the '80s anti-hero where characters became more darker, grittier, and definitely more violent.  Wolverine was a natural fit to a group that would later include Miller DD, Miller Bats, Punisher, Lobo, Sabertooth, etc..

[delekkerste]

6 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

I actually agree with RMA when he states that "Wolverine was NOT *THE* big draw for the X-Men until the late 80s (generally, 1986 and beyond)," but only because I think prior to the time period the draw was the team as a whole.

I think Wolvie is actually less of a draw for the X-Men later in the decade, when he is showing up in Uncanny X-Men, Classic X-Men (1986 - reprint series featuring some new material), Wolverine (1988), Marvel Comics Presents (1988) and is well on his way to becoming overused and overexposed in the '90s.  

If the team was the big draw in 1980...1981...1982...certainly by 1983 (post-limited series), people can't get enough of Wolverine, and he starts showing up more outside of the usual Uncanny X-Men title in Daredevil #196 (1983), Alpha Flight #13 (1984), Kitty Pryde & Wolverine (1984-85), as well as alongside some/all of the rest of the team (remember, continuity is still a thing back then) in various other guest appearances and limited series.  I don't know what you can credibly point to that happened between 1983 and 1986 to warrant pushing back any distinction regarding his superstar status to that latter date.  

Edited June 27, 2019 by delekkerste

[jjonahjameson11]

6 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

I actually agree with RMA when he states that "Wolverine was NOT *THE* big draw for the X-Men until the late 80s (generally, 1986 and beyond)," but only because I think prior to the time period the draw was the team as a whole.

Byrne felt an affinity for Wolverine from the start.  And the scripts started to make Wolverine a really interesting character fairly early into the Claremont/Byrne/Austin run with the portrayal of Wolverine as a wild animal-like barely controlled killer in the Savage Land arc.  And let's not forget the infamous and shocking murder of the guard scene.Wolverine was rapidly becoming many fans "favorite X-Men" after this seminal scent in X-Men 132:

And the following story in X-Men 133:

 

He was definitely an interesting and fan favorite character by then.

If you agree with RMA, then you are both wrong.  Wolverine was *THE* draw in X-Men shortly after the first issue of the first Wolverine mini-series was published, back in 1982.

[Logan510]

15 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I think Wolvie is actually less of a draw for the X-Men later in the decade, when he is showing up in Uncanny X-Men, Classic X-Men (1986 - reprint series featuring some new material), Wolverine (1988), Marvel Comics Presents (1988) and is well on his way to becoming overused and overexposed in the '90s.  

If the team was the big draw in 1980...1981...1982...certainly by 1983 (post-limited series), people can't get enough of Wolverine, and he starts showing up more outside of the usual Uncanny X-Men title in Daredevil #196 (1983), Alpha Flight #13 (1984), Kitty Pryde & Wolverine (1984-85), as well as alongside some/all of the rest of the team (remember, continuity is still a thing back then) in various other guest appearances and limited series.  I don't know what you can credibly point to anything that happened between 1983 and 1986 to warrant pushing back any distinction regarding his superstar status to that latter date.  

I can only speak for myself, the friends I had back then and the 2-3 comic stores I went to but I did live through it and not just read about it years later like some other folks. I can say without a doubt that Wolverine was very popular before 1986...he was different, mysterious and interesting. We all wanted to know more about him and ate up every little scrap that was revealed.

[Logan510]

9 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

If you agree with RMA, then you are both wrong.  Wolverine was *THE* draw in X-Men shortly after the first issue of the first Wolverine mini-series was published, back in 1982.

Not to go too off topic but I always felt that limited series was a turning point for the character. He went from being a "ticking time bomb" to a "failed samurai".

I've always preferred the former 

[sfcityduck]

2 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

If you agree with RMA, then you are both wrong.  Wolverine was *THE* draw in X-Men shortly after the first issue of the first Wolverine mini-series was published, back in 1982.

Don't get me wrong, I think Wolverine was the fan favorite X-Men member by the 130s, and likely before.

But, back then it was a team.

You're right the first erosion of the team concept was the 1982 Wolverine mini.  But, while that was cool, it was not followed up until two years later with the Wolvy and Kitty mini which sucked.  

I don't think Wolverine really became "THE X-MAN" until the mid-1980s, meaning he didn't need the team anymore.  It was all about him.

[Ken Aldred]

On 6/25/2019 at 7:36 PM, HouseofComics.Com said:

The British were probably a year ahead of us in figuring out what was good.

Fairly slow with Miller Daredevil.

That really heated up early 1982.

In the north, anyway.

That’s when I started getting pestered by an LCS owner and his irritating hanger-on for my copies.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Ken Aldred

[HarrisonJohn]

Chris Claremont didn't want Wolverine to have his own series, he thought he was a less is more type of character and was better suited for mini series. Marvel let Chris have his way with the x-universe for many years, and didn't start stepping on his toes until the return of Jean Grey (1986). Had it not been for Claremont I think the Mini would have been the start of an ongoing.

Dazzler was probably Marvel's attempt to try to get some female readers. They always seemed to have one or two titles going, with bad art and writing, trying to accomplish that.

[sfcityduck]

4 hours ago, HarrisonJohn said:

 

Dazzler was probably Marvel's attempt to try to get some female readers. They always seemed to have one or two titles going, with bad art and writing, trying to accomplish that.

Dazzler started as a movie treatment.  They thought that they were going to make it big capitalising on disco.  

[Shaun C89]

X-men 133 used to be a pretty big key with the solo Wolverine cover, I remember in the 80s there was the X-men and then everything else. It’s about time the X-men run 94-143 gets some more respect. 

I still think that 109, 120 and 121 are still very undervalued.

I think the Miller DD run is pretty undervalued too, like X-Men 94-143, every comic collector should have the Miller DD run in their collection.