telerites Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I am curious if anyone knows how a classic cover was designated by Overstreet and/or by CGC since there are differences. I tried to go back through the thread below which was started in 2007 to see it might be posted there, and admit, did not go through every post but did not see anything. I remember posting in this thread about one of my slabs not being designated a classic cover even though I saw a copy of the same book that had that designation. Mine was graded after so is the CGC classic cover designation fluid? How does CGC make the decision? Did Overstreet originally decide himself? Was there a committee of the advisors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Overstreet was using the "classic cover" term long before CGC. I'm sure CGC consulted the OSPG when they started slabbing books, but let's not forget that Borock and West were/are long term OSPG advisors before they started grading for CGC. The term classic does seem to be thrown around a bit more today than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telerites Posted June 21, 2019 Author Share Posted June 21, 2019 7 hours ago, Primetime said: Overstreet was using the "classic cover" term long before CGC. I'm sure CGC consulted the OSPG when they started slabbing books, but let's not forget that Borock and West were/are long term OSPG advisors before they started grading for CGC. The term classic does seem to be thrown around a bit more today than before. I realize Overstreet noted classics long before CGC so he decided solely himself which were classics. I do think it is interesting that OS and CGC do not match up. I need to go back and look at the list from the other thread but I am guessing CGC has all of the OSPG covers plus more they have designated. Thanks for the insights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino2paulus2 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 I am curious as well don’t have an answer but to chime in I know CGC is open to changing labels a bit as OSPG had Classic Nazi Monster cover for Speed 28. CGCs label did not reflect that. I asked them to change it and they did which I though was cool 🤟 Primetime and IngelsFan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telerites Posted June 21, 2019 Author Share Posted June 21, 2019 3 hours ago, gino2paulus2 said: I am curious as well don’t have an answer but to chime in I know CGC is open to changing labels a bit as OSPG had Classic Nazi Monster cover for Speed 28. CGCs label did not reflect that. I asked them to change it and they did which I though was cool 🤟 I've been waiting for BP @Straw-Man to request Hello Pal #1 as classic gino2paulus2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamstrange Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 18 hours ago, telerites said: I am curious if anyone knows how a classic cover was designated by Overstreet and/or by CGC since there are differences. If it's not a key then it must be a classic! vaultkeeper 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Mann Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Yorick and szav 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cat-Man_America Posted June 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, adamstrange said: If it's not a key then it must be a classic! Keys may be both for those folks living in South Florida. Obviously, there are no hard/fast rules for designating “classic” covers. At the risk of being called a “blowhard” and having my credibility disputed without evidence I’ll just state the obvious: labeling classic cover status is inconsistent. I suspect there are clear examples of the designation being left off of labels by mistake and other examples where that status may change on a whim based on rising or falling popularity of books. One could argue that “classic cover” flexibility is a good thing as long as it isn’t subtractive. Seriously, I think there’s plenty of room for expanding the designation and many/most covers described as classic clearly deserve it. OSG is always a good place to start ...deference should be given to legacy..., but that shouldn’t preclude third party grading companies from participating in awarding the classification (based on popular consensus) where deserved. Without getting into the weeds, a fair proportion of classic covers standing out from those not rising to the level of exceptional should probably be around 1 in 10. The criteria for “classic cover” status should range from exceptional art to shocking art (such as controversial covers containing overt sexual, drug use and/or violence). Also, groundbreaking iconic first appearances to unusual experiments in graphic design should qualify. In some cases a classic cover may be simple, in other cases complex, but usually classic cover images convey a statement of some kind that stands out among other books in the series. Those taking a different position shouldn’t get their pants in a bunch. This is just my opinion based on personal experience and observations. Other’s mileage will probably vary and is equally valid. No harm, no foul. thehumantorch, Knightsofold, Primetime and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 I like what you say Cat, but I was thinking the ratio might be closer to 1 in a 100 AJD and Cat-Man_America 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 11 hours ago, telerites said: I realize Overstreet noted classics long before CGC so he decided solely himself which were classics. I do think it is interesting that OS and CGC do not match up. I need to go back and look at the list from the other thread but I am guessing CGC has all of the OSPG covers plus more they have designated. Thanks for the insights. I imagine cgc gets a fair amount of suggestions from customers on what to put on their labels as far as what people feel are classic covers or other notable information. Overstreet takes consideration as well. telerites 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat-Man_America Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: I like what you say Cat, but I was thinking the ratio might be closer to 1 in a 100 You’re probably right. I’d certainly think there’s room for more if that proves to be the case. I’m pretty sure the designation isn’t spread out evenly between published lines of books. Some titles may have relatively few if any classic covers, others have dozens or perhaps should have dozens. Off the top of my head I can think of quite a few Caps and Marvel Mysteries with iconic covers I’d easily deem classics. This is an intriguing subject regardless of how things shake out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 35 minutes ago, Cat-Man_America said: Off the top of my head I can think of quite a few Caps and Marvel Mysteries with iconic covers I’d easily deem classics. Agreed. Cap 1 and Cap 37 come quickly to mind . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat-Man_America Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: Agreed. Cap 1 and Cap 37 come quickly to mind . . I have three Cap covers designated classics with less than 50% of the run, Cap #7, 18 & 74. I’m sure someone with a complete run or near complete run could fill in more blanks. For Cap and MM, I suspect a 10:1 ratio may not be too far off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, Cat-Man_America said: I have three Cap covers designated classics with less than 50% of the run, Cap #7, 18 & 74. I’m sure someone with a complete run or near complete run could fill in more blanks. For Cap and MM, I suspect a 10:1 ratio may not be too far off the mark. Oh on the ratio thing: I thought you meant 1 out of 10 random books. I now see you meant one out of 10 books within a particular title. Yes, you are right about Caps and MMCs for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightsofold Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Recently I was discussing GA covers that transcend their niche and are desirable to a broad range of different GA specialist collectors. As we discussed the books that transcended their genres, (Phantom Lady 17 to non gga collectors , All Select #1 to non super hero or timely collectors, suspense #3 to .. anyone...). I realized that most or all the books we mentioned are, or once were designated “Classic Cover” by cgc or Overstreet. So I think demand outside niche collectors is another way to naturally determine a classic or potential classic cover. just my 2c. szav and ender 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telerites Posted June 21, 2019 Author Share Posted June 21, 2019 Thanks for all the input. Great insights. Through all of it, subjectivity comes into play and what is classic in the eye of the beholder. Since I have the National run of Uncle Sam covers I will pick on that one. #16 imo should be classic and there others in there too but someone else may not agree on 16. I do wonder now much the list from the other thread has changed and possibly this wasn't the most current thread to quote. Note also the link within the quote to classic covers not designated as such On 5/31/2008 at 5:50 PM, Joseph Ragno said: Bump on this thread. I'm not sure if it's because this thread is old, but it's not letting me edit my very first post. So, I guess I'll just copy and paste here. I've added one. Action Comics 36, 52, 63, 89, 108 (credit Durden08) Adventure Comics 67, 79 Air Ace V2#2 Air Fighters Comics V1#7, V2#1 All-American Comics 21 All-American Western 113 All Select Comics 1, 2 (credit MrBedrock) All Star Comics 33 All Winners 4, 8 Amazing-Man Comics 22 Amazing Mystery Funnies 5 American Air Forces 2 America’s Best Comics 10 (credit telerites), 18 America’s Greatest Comics 1 Astonishing 30 Atomic Comics 1 Baffling Mysteries 20 Batman 3, 11, 17, 23, 27, 156, 227, 251 (credits scheradon, prof66) Betty and Me 16 Beware the Creeper 1 Big Shot Comics 24 Black Cat Mystery 30 Black Rider 20 Blue Beetle 54 (credit skybolt) Blue Bolt V1#4, V9#5, 108 (credit telerites) Bobby Benson’s B-Bar-B Riders 14 Boy Comics 10, 11 Boy Commandos 1 Brenda Starr V1#14 Camp Comics 12 Captain America 111, 113 Captain America Comics 2, 3, 7, 13, 18, 36, 46, 74 Captain Flight Comics 5, 11 Captain Marvel Adventures 4 Captain Marvel, Jr. 1, 4, 9, 13 Captain Midnight 3 Catman Comics 3, 19 Choice Comics 3 Creepy #15 (thank you credit to Blind Owl) Crime Does Not Pay 24, 27, 33 Crimes by Women 6 Criminals on the Run 7 Cyclone Comics 3 Daredevil Comics 11 Dead by Hands of Kung Fu 14 Detective Comics 8, 31, 33, 35, 69, 371 Doc Savage Comics 2, 5 Don Winslow of the Navy 44 Dynamic Comics 8 Fantastic Comics 3 Fantastic Four 25 Fighting Yank 21, 23 (credit skybolt) Flash Comics 8, 10, 21, 31, 33 Forbidden Love 1, 2 Four Favorites 10 Foxhole 1 Frisky Animals 45 Funny Pages 35 G.I. Combat 87 Great Comics 3 (credit MrBedrock) Green Hornet Comics 20 Green Lantern 1, 3, 8, 16, 29 Haunt of Fear 8, 11, 12, 14, 17 Headline Comics 8 Heart Throbs 1 Hit Comics 5, 11 Holiday Comics 2 House of Mystery 231 House of Secrets 92, 100 Howdy Doody 6 Human Torch 12, 23, 33 (credit MrBedrock) Incredible Science Fiction 33 Iron Man 128 Jet Powers 2 Jo-Jo Comics 25 (credit skybolt) Journey Into Mystery 89 Jumbo Comics 10 Jungle Comics 5 Justice Traps the Guilty 56 Lars of Mars 10, 11 Leading Comics 13 Liberty Comics 12 Living Bible 3 Lone Ranger 76 Mad 166 Magic Comics 19 Marvel Mystery Comics 5, 9, 12, 28, 29, 37, 40, 44, 46, 63 (credit MrBedrock) Marvel Super Action 12, 13 Mask Comics 1, 2 Master Comics 32 Mickey Mouse Magazine V4#7, 10 Military Comics 10 Mister Mystery 12 More Fun Comics 54, 56, 61, 65, 71 Murder Incorporated 4 Mysterious Adventures 13 Mystery Men Comics 3 Mystic Comics 7 National Comics 7, 21 Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. 5 (credit Moondog) Our Army at War #112 Peter Panda 5 Phantom 74 Phantom Lady 17, 23 (credit skybolt) Power Comics 3 Prize Comics 4 Punch Comics 12 Racket Squad In Action 12 Rangers Comics 26 (credit telerites) Red Dragon Comics 6, 7 Roly Poly Comic Book 14 Romantic Adventures 50 Science Comics 2, 3 Scoop Comics 2 Seven Seas Comics 4 Shadow Comics V2#11, V3#6 Shock Suspenstories 1, 6, 7, 12 Silver Streak Comics 6 Slam Bang Comics 3 Slave Girl Comics 1 (credit skybolt) Smash Comics 38 Space Adventures 12 Spirit 22 Star Comics V1#3 Startling Comics 46, 49 Strange Tales 167 Strange Worlds 4, 167 (credit skybolt) Sub-Mariner Comics 11 Superman 14, 23, 24, 26, 53, 146, 233 Super-Mystery Comics 4 Supersnipe Comics V2#2 Suspense Comics 3, 8, 11 Tales of Suspense 58, 59, 80 Tales to Astonish 59 Target Comics V1#8, V2#10, V4#5, V9#12 Terrific Comics (Cont. Mag.) 4, 5 Terrific Comics (Myst Pub) 14 Terrifying Tales 13 Thrilling Comics 7, 41, 52 Thrilling Crime Comics 49 Tomb of Terror 15 Top-Notch Comics 5 True Crime Comics 3 United States Marines 2 USA Comics 7, 9 Vault of Horror 17 Weird Mysteries 4, 5 Weird Science 12 (#1) Weird Science-Fantasy 29 Weird Tales of the Future 7 Weird Thrillers 3 Werewolf By Night 15 Wings Comics 89, 91, 94 (credit skybolt) Witching Hour 13 (credit scheradon) Wonder Woman 10, 179, 199 (credit scheradon) Worlds of Fear 10 Yellowjacket Comics 7 Young Allies 4, 8 Zip Comics 9, 15, 22, 32 Zoo Funnies 2 So, is there a comic cover you know doesn't make the list, but you think it should? Don't use this thread to comment, but instead jump to this thread: classic covers NOT designated as such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBedrock Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: Agreed. Cap 1 and Cap 37 come quickly to mind . . Cap 37 is already a CGC Classic... Howling Mad and Cat-Man_America 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat-Man_America Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: Oh on the ratio thing: I thought you meant 1 out of 10 random books. I now see you meant one out of 10 books within a particular title. Yes, you are right about Caps and MMCs for sure. Ah, we’re definitely on the same page. BTW, must’ve had a brain-fart leaving out Cap #2, which makes four classic Cap covers in my collection. From Joseph Rango’s list in 2008 there have definitely been additions, including LB Cole’s cover for CatMan #32 (personally, I think his cover for CatMan #31 should be on the list as well). Great thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, MrBedrock said: Cap 37 is already a CGC Classic... I know that. I’ve got 3 of them and just today purchased a 9.0. My point was it’s not on the list posted previously in this string. Overstreet doesn’t give it classic cover status. CGC has started to go around Overstreet by calling it a “classic flag cover”, but that, to me anyway, doesn’t get it right. Does “classic flag cover” mean the cover isn’t good enough to be a true classic amongst all covers, only meriting status amongst the sub genre of “flag” covers? That is faint praise Edited June 21, 2019 by GreatCaesarsGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBedrock Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 minute ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: I know that. I’ve got 3 of them and just today purchased a 9.0. My point was it’s not on the list posted previously in this string. Overstreet doesn’t give it classic cover status. CGC has started to go around Overstreet by calling it a “classic flag cover”, but that, to me anyway, doesn’t get it right. Does “classic flag cover” mean the cover isn’t good enough to be a true classic amongst all covers, only meriting status amongst the sub genre of “flag” covers? That is faint praise GreatCaesarsGhost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
