Heritage's Next Event Auction has started posting books ! 31 31

[Mmehdy]

On 11/3/2019 at 9:33 AM, szav said:

Haven't seen a really nice looking copy of Suspense 8 for sale in years.  With Mask #1 CGC 3.0s going for 10k+ and how much LB Cole books have spiked in the last 3 to 4 years it'll be interesting to see how this one does.  Of course given HA's penchant for amping scans recently I have doubts this book has such rich yellows and reds in hand.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/suspense-comics-8-continental-magazines-1945-cgc-fn-vf-70-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/7212-92188.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

 

amazing book...

[lou_fine]

15 hours ago, The-Collector said:

On 11/3/2019 at 10:13 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

What's up with the spike in L. B. Cole prices? It isn't like he was just discovered by the hobby. It seems random.

Instagram is my guess. 

 

1 hour ago, The-Collector said:

3 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

That would never have occurred to me! I've been a fan of L.B. Cole for years. Unfortunately I only picked up a couple his books while prices were still reasonable. I thought I had all the time in the world!

Yeah I would think it is only part of the equation but in conjunction with the slabbing of books making the covers more important and the focus of instagram on likeable content which Cole has in spades by being so bold and bright I think that is probably a big reason for the price rises. But I have nothing concrete to go on. That is just wild speculation. 

I personally believe it has a lot more to do with the cycling pattern of price increases that have historically taken place in the comic book marketplace.

On a more macro level for example, SA books will get hot for a certain time period which then makes the GA books look relatively cheaper in comparison, which then turns up the heat in the GA market.  On a smaller level, you usually see sharp increases in the big publishers such as DC and Timely first, and then this is usually followed by sharp increases in the 2nd and 3rd tier publishers like the Fox and Centaur books during the past few years.  On a even smaller level, the rave last year seem to be all bout Baker art and now this year, it seems to be all about L.B. Cole art.  Maybe next year, it might cycle through to Raboy cover art or whoever or whatever the next hot phase is.

If you look at the more recent collecting time periods, the previous 2 years seem to have been all about AF 15 which is definitely not the case this year.  Now the heat has moved onto books such as Fantastic Four and Hulk 181,although the IH 181 might have hit a top by now already.

So to me, it all appears to be part of an ongoing cycle that ends up lifting the entire market on a sector by sector basis over an extended period of time.  

Edited November 5, 2019 by lou_fine

[Heronext]

On 11/3/2019 at 1:13 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

ETA: What's up with the spike in L. B. Cole prices? It isn't like he was just discovered by the hobby. It seems random.

It followed the surge in price/popularity of Matt Baker covers.  I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cole thread here had something to do with it.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Heronext

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

I am reposting this from the LB Cole Master thread.  This book went for 20 times guide in Sunday night’s weekly Heritage auction . . .

[jimbo_7071]

3 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

I am reposting this from the LB Cole Master thread.  This book went for 20 times guide in Sunday night’s weekly Heritage auction . . .

Well, if you interpolate the guide value of a 6.5, it would be about $250, so this one went for about 17X guide

That's still a healthy multiple, but the cover is  considered one of Cole's better ones, and the guide price is pretty low for that issue. I don't think you'll see many books with 4-figure guide values selling for 20X guide. I do remember one book--maybe a Church copy of one of the Suspense issues?--selling for an astronomical price on HA 10 or 15 years ago.

People have been saying that HA has been amping up the color in their scans. I wonder if the Ghostly Weird looks as good in hand. If not, the buyer might not be very happy with his or her purchase.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

13 minutes ago, jimbo_7071 said:

Well, if you interpolate the guide value of a 6.5, it would be about $250, so this one went for about 17X guide

That's still a healthy multiple, but the cover is  considered one of Cole's better ones, and the guide price is pretty low for that issue. I don't think you'll see many books with 4-figure guide values selling for 20X guide. I do remember one book--maybe a Church copy of one of the Suspense issues?--selling for an astronomical price on HA 10 or 15 years ago.

People have been saying that HA has been amping up the color in their scans. I wonder if the Ghostly Weird looks as good in hand. If not, the buyer might not be very happy with his or her purchase.

That scanner practice is everywhere, unfortunately. A book I once owned was recently offered for sale.

my scan is first. Their scan is second

this is one of the hazards of the hobby now

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by GreatCaesarsGhost

[MasterChief]

On 11/3/2019 at 12:57 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

On 11/3/2019 at 11:10 AM, comicjack said:

I have my doubts that really is a 7.0 

Well, it's Heritage, and Mark Wilson is there now. 'Nuff said.

Wait, Mark Wilson is working for Heritage now? When did that happen?

[jimbo_7071]

27 minutes ago, MasterChief said:

Wait, Mark Wilson is working for Heritage now? When did that happen?

https://www.ha.com/heritage-auctions-press-releases-and-news/mark-wilson-joins-heritage-auctions-dallas-office-as-comics-consignment-director.s?releaseId=3555

I learned about a few months later; it's kept me from going after books on my want list more than once. It just sticks in my craw, if you know what I mean.

By the way, if there proof that Mark Wilson was involved in the reverse spine roll debacle, or was that just Thomas Wilson? I can't remember.

Edited November 5, 2019 by jimbo_7071

[MrBedrock]

On 11/3/2019 at 2:02 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

Some years ago I was talking with Chris Foss of Heroes and Drsgons ...

...we just finished the conversation.

[adamstrange]

54 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

On 11/3/2019 at 3:02 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

Some years ago I was talking with Chris Foss of Heroes and Drsgons ...

...we just finished the conversation.

Mine's still going 

[MasterChief]

On 11/3/2019 at 2:49 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

On 11/3/2019 at 1:05 PM, Chicago Boy said:

What’s the beef with Mark Wilson ?  Any supporters ??

Here's one short thread. I haven't purchased anything from Heritage since I found out that they had hired Wilson. I'll still throw in low-ball bids in hopes getting a bargain, but they are way down my list of potential sources now, just above Danny Dupcak and Jason Ewert.

ETA: The thread above makes reference to the reverse spine roll technique (shifting the spine and all of its defects to the fact cover in order to get a grade bump). I don't know the extent of Mark Wilson's involvement in that, if any. I believe eBay seller collectors_comics is Thomas Wilson.

 

I did a fair amount of research during that whole controversy. So much so, I was contacted privately by CGC and asked to provide my data to aid and abet their investigation. I sent what I had. Never asked how it helped and they never provided me with any follow-up. Bottom line, the father and son had been Wilson-izing books and creating "Facejobs" for some time. That episode is what got the son caught and shed new light on the Wilson Klan.

[jimbo_7071]

11 minutes ago, MasterChief said:

I did a fair amount of research during that whole controversy. So much so, I was contacted privately by CGC and asked to provide my data to aid and abet their investigation. I sent what I had. Never asked how it helped and they never provided me with any follow-up. Bottom line, the father and son had been Wilson-izing books and creating "Facejobs" for some time. That episode is what got the son caught and shed new light on the Wilson Klan.

That they hired Wilson tells me everything I need to know about the executives at Heritage. I wouldn't trust any book on their site now.

[drbanner]

15 minutes ago, MasterChief said:

Bottom line, the father and son had been Wilson-izing books and creating "Facejobs" for some time. That episode is what got the son caught and shed new light on the Wilson Klan.

The Wilson Cabal...they'll never work in this industry again! 

[drbanner]

On 11/3/2019 at 12:33 PM, szav said:

Haven't seen a really nice looking copy of Suspense 8 for sale in years.  With Mask #1 CGC 3.0s going for 10k+ and how much LB Cole books have spiked in the last 3 to 4 years it'll be interesting to see how this one does.  Of course given HA's penchant for amping scans recently I have doubts this book has such rich yellows and reds in hand.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/suspense-comics-8-continental-magazines-1945-cgc-fn-vf-70-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/7212-92188.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

 

Pretty nice looking mid-grade copy up for sale in the same auction, a lot of killer books in this one.

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, MasterChief said:

I did a fair amount of research during that whole controversy. So much so, I was contacted privately by CGC and asked to provide my data to aid and abet their investigation. I sent what I had. Never asked how it helped and they never provided me with any follow-up. Bottom line, the father and son had been Wilson-izing books and creating "Facejobs" for some time. That episode is what got the son caught and shed new light on the Wilson Klan.

Any chance they might have really wanted your research so that they could hopefully gain some insight on how the whole process is done so that they could pass this information off to their partner CCS company?  

Companies absolutely hate it when their competitors can do a much better job than they themselves can.  

Edited November 5, 2019 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

54 minutes ago, drbanner said:

1 hour ago, MasterChief said:

Bottom line, the father and son had been Wilson-izing books and creating "Facejobs" for some time. That episode is what got the son caught and shed new light on the Wilson Klan.

The Wilson Cabal...they'll never work in this industry again! 

Looks like you are are absolutely dead wrong with your statment here.  

Well, I think everybody here should have seen this coming when the whole insider manipulation of comic books was first brought to light 15 years ago.

Sad to say, but definitely no surprise to me that the master manipulators and comic book doctors have now risen to the top of the comic book collecting world.  Especially when CCG has such a huge influence in the entire collectibles market with their cross ownership of various companies in this entire field.  After buying out CCS and putting their master craftsman in charge of CGC grading a few years ago, we now have Mark Wilson installed as one of the Consignment Directors for Heritage at the beginning of this year.  

It actually wouldn't surprise me at all if they already have Jason lined up in the on-deck circle or possibly even already working secretly behind the scenes in one of their myriad of companies.  

Edited November 5, 2019 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

14 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

On 11/3/2019 at 9:33 AM, szav said:

Haven't seen a really nice looking copy of Suspense 8 for sale in years.  With Mask #1 CGC 3.0s going for 10k+ and how much LB Cole books have spiked in the last 3 to 4 years it'll be interesting to see how this one does.  Of course given HA's penchant for amping scans recently I have doubts this book has such rich yellows and reds in hand.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/suspense-comics-8-continental-magazines-1945-cgc-fn-vf-70-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/7212-92188.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

 

amazing book...

+1

Yes, most definitely an amazing book in terms of this classic L.B. Cole spider cover.  

But not quite as amazing as the absolutely stunning and flawless looking Church copy which I saw through Geppi's mahogany bookcase window during the Diamond Galleries Grand Opening way back in early '95.     

[MasterChief]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

2 hours ago, MasterChief said:

I did a fair amount of research during that whole controversy. So much so, I was contacted privately by CGC and asked to provide my data to aid and abet their investigation. I sent what I had. Never asked how it helped and they never provided me with any follow-up. Bottom line, the father and son had been Wilson-izing books and creating "Facejobs" for some time. That episode is what got the son caught and shed new light on the Wilson Klan.

Any chance they might have really wanted your research so that they could hopefully gain some insight on how the whole process is done so that they could pass this information off to their partner CCS company?  

Companies absolutely hate it when their competitors can do a much better job than they themselves can.  

Edited 48 minutes ago by lou_fine

I suspect the information provided was used to facilitate several things. That being: (1) identifying the seller of the doctored books, (2) pinpointing the actual books worked on by way of the before and after CGC numbers and scanned images which would have led to (3) recalling the books so that the CGC experts could evaluate the work, make a determination as to how it was performed, and identifying the Facejob characteristics so that they wouldn't be caught up in a follow-on controversy.

Edited November 5, 2019 by MasterChief

[MasterChief]

20 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Any bets that if you ask Matt the same question today, his answer would be completely different since CGC's implementation of their current Restoration Grading Scale now no longer slots the type of chemical cleaning that Mark used to do as falling under the Restoration umbrella.  It is now considered to be Conservation which I guess is not as bad as the old PLOD designation.  So, maybe Mark was partially right when he said at the time way back then that what he was doing was not actually Restoration.

Having been away for awhile, I guess I missed this too. Mark Wilson employs solvent cleaning and it's not considered restoration?

[drbanner]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

Looks like you are are absolutely dead wrong with your statment here.