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Heritage's Next Event Auction has started posting books !
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7,948 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Sure.   Supply is the biggest issue; there's precious little.

Swing by the facebook groups.

This one's been around a year or two.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/502536466816380/

this one is brand new but has some data points on completed sales.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/759246584570374/

If you find the prices on games high though, you may not  find the prices on OA cheap.   At the very least you'll have fun checking out the groups.

 

Thanks appreciate this response.  Its not that prices on collectible games are too high from an affordability standpoint, as much as they’re too high given how little I know about actual rarity etc.  I’m hesitant to jump in till the market matures.  It’s too high risk for my tastes right now.

With OA it’s easy, there’s only one.  I’d have guessed most of the OA for pc and console games are still held by the companies or high level executives.  Doesn’t surprise me that there isn’t much out there.

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10 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

Tech geeks love this sort of stuff.  Old cell phones are selling for big money, old consoles, even open games are in demand to be played.  I think it is just at the beginning stages myself with a lot of upside potential.  I dont collect the stuff myself but like watching what stuff goes for.

I understand that POV especially in light of Palmer Luckey being the high bid on that prototype but tbh in my experience most collectors aren't any more tech savvy than anybody else.   

I just see it this way - circa 92 the new comics industry took a giant dump, and at about that same time, new options like games (though they had started before) and mtg picked up and kind of took over what your nerdy socially awkward teenager was into.   What's your 16 year old boy that can't get laid doing is a key question IMO.   It hasn't been reading comics for at least 25 years now.   And as a result, comic shops aren't comic shops anymore for the most part.   They are mtg shops.    I love comics but lets face it a lot of the hobby is 40 and 50 and 60 year olds running on inertia from their days growing up.   That's both good and bad.

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2 hours ago, szav said:

Thanks appreciate this response.  Its not that prices on collectible games are too high from an affordability standpoint, as much as they’re too high given how little I know about actual rarity etc.  I’m hesitant to jump in till the market matures.  It’s too high risk for my tastes right now.

With OA it’s easy, there’s only one.  I’d have guessed most of the OA for pc and console games are still held by the companies or high level executives.  Doesn’t surprise me that there isn’t much out there.

Yes, there's a lot held at the corporate level, a lot simply destroyed too.

THe early stuff (pre NES) was largely turfed.    The later stuff (post SNES) was digital.   So there's only a thin slice (not corporate owned) of a thin slice (say 1988-1995) out there.  But that being said there are some wonderful ones in existence.   You will enjoy those groups.

There's also due to be some lower end pieces in the May heritage auction.    There's still more time and I know they are trying to get more consignments so maybe there will be more than is currently slated.

 

LL.jpg

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Im not interested in buying these video games.... however, I don't agree pristine copies now slabbed and selling for huge numbers are somehow invalidated because they may have been unsold store stock.  Thats never been a consideration that trumps condition before in comics or baseball cards, or movie posters etc etc.  If a box of unsold Marvels comics from 1961 turned up today, would these books in miraculously high grade be less valuable than Curator or Western Penn copies because they never circulated?  How about the cases of 1952 Topps that contained around 40 Mantle rookies? Is no one buying them because they weren't left untouched in a kids sock drawer for 50 years and not in bicycle spokes or a plastic slab?  Or movie posters obtained from a printer but never displayed in a theatre lobby the sat in a collectors flat files ?  

Mint condition is mint condition, and when the demand is there they will sell for big dollars regardless of how they survived.  What I would be concerned about with toy and game packaged collectibles would be re-cellophane wrapped items.  If done right aren't there extremely hard to tell apart from real plastic wrapping?  assuming there are opened pieces in HG so as not to be obvious used VGs in new plastic.

 

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6 hours ago, Aman619 said:

What I would be concerned about with toy and game packaged collectibles would be re-cellophane wrapped items. If done right aren't there extremely hard to tell apart from real plastic wrapping?  assuming there are opened pieces in HG so as not to be obvious used VGs in new plastic.

 

Everything I’m going to say is in reference to the older stuff only, I can’t speak to newer.  
 

Even if you got the right type of cellophane of the right thickness with the right distinguishing marks and sealed it in the right way (no small feat and no your garden variety wrap and home sealer will not work).....    With the cardboard box stuff, the very act of opening it creates specific damage in specific places.    As a result you can’t take a used but hg box and do anything with it.    It’s been tried, and going back as far as 20 years, so it’s not a new concept, but since you can’t get a perfect unsealaed box you’d either have to start with a fake box or Color touch a real used hg box, either of which you could detect. 
 

Fakes are a danger in everything for the unwary or uneducated.   But anyone sticking to graded will be fine.   If buying raw, educate yourself and make some friends to ask questions of.   However, ironically, there are far more fakes of opened games than sealed.   Sealed is trickier than you’d think for reasons including the above and unlike comics, there are no micro trimming shenanigans possible with something that’s sealed and printed on all four sides with no margin.   No pressing Issues with a 3d item either.    I have no issue saying there is far less condition manipulation possible with older sealed games than with comics.    Really the only thing that can be done along those lines is lightly dryclean the wrap without scratching it.

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17 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I would tend to agree with you here and would certainly agree with Tim's point that the video game market does not appear to be built based upon the true collectors with long and deep roots in the hobby, as compared to both comics and OA which clearly does.  (thumbsu

I never said this.

All I said was that I was disappointed to find that all these sealed games were never actually sold to an actual buyer.

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6 hours ago, Aman619 said:

Im not interested in buying these video games.... however, I don't agree pristine copies now slabbed and selling for huge numbers are somehow invalidated because they may have been unsold store stock.  Thats never been a consideration that trumps condition before in comics or baseball cards, or movie posters etc etc.  If a box of unsold Marvels comics from 1961 turned up today, would these books in miraculously high grade be less valuable than Curator or Western Penn copies because they never circulated?  How about the cases of 1952 Topps that contained around 40 Mantle rookies? Is no one buying them because they weren't left untouched in a kids sock drawer for 50 years and not in bicycle spokes or a plastic slab?  Or movie posters obtained from a printer but never displayed in a theatre lobby the sat in a collectors flat files ?  

I'm not saying that they're not worth anything.  I own my fair share of file copies.

But, I just don't think that a 9.6 file copy, which was never sold to the public and just sat inside a warehouse or in a publisher's drawer, is nearly as cool as a 9.6 copy that made its way all the way down the supply chain into an actual retail buyer's possession.  There's nothing really miraculous about the 9.6 file copy, whereas it really is a miracle that a comic purchased by an individual, even an adult, survived for decades in pristine condition.

Like I said, all things being equal, I prefer the purchased copy over the file copy.  But sometimes they're not equal and the file copy is clearly superior, in which case I take the file copy.

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Fair enough, but we are mixing concepts here.   These aren’t the equivalent of a publishers file copy stock.    They are the equivalent of the unsold stock of a newsstand (which didn’t really happen in comics, but it is the closer parallel).  These things did Get bought (by the ‘newsstand’ on a non returnable basis) and see shelf wear and did get bumped around .    A high grade is not automatic whatsoever.   Not that it really matters except as to the keeping the discussion straight here.

More to the point, in the same way that you seem to adore the idea of a comic somehow staying in 9.6 for 50+ years, Something that doesn’t seem possible.... someone like myself appreciates unsold stock of certain production dates somehow existing ... it shouldn’t be possible on certain items that had 100% sell through, were expensive, were immediately opened, and only available for a short time.    It’s a ridiculous ask, just like a 9.6 1962 book is a ridiculous ask.   To me, the sense of wonder that you describe is all about the degree of difficulty of what you are asking the artifact to have survived.   Not about whom it was sold to. 

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5 hours ago, Bronty said:

No pressing Issues with a 3d item either.    I have no issue saying there is far less condition manipulation possible with older sealed games than with comics.    Really the only thing that can be done along those lines is lightly dryclean the wrap without scratching it.

Uh, except for the fact that people can and do press the manuals.  Additionally its common practice with opened games to find the best "pieces" and combine them to create the best graded complete opened game package (cart, manuals, box) for the highest grade.  This is called 'marrying' in comics but in games its completely acceptable and not identified on any labels (which is understandable, but you're still buying a 'married' game).

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5 hours ago, tth2 said:

Like I said, all things being equal, I prefer the purchased copy over the file copy.  But sometimes they're not equal and the file copy is clearly superior, in which case I take the file copy.

+1

Most definitely!!!  (thumbsu

I have some File Copies from the late 30's and turn of the 40's and they are indeed absolute stunners to behold.  :cloud9:

The only drawback is that they tend to have some of those tiny non-color breaking creases on them which you can see when you hold them up at a certain angle to the light.  Sadly, something which the current group of graders at CGC will absolutely smack the living daylights of when it comes to grading.  :mad:  :censored:  :cry:

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45 minutes ago, dem1138 said:

Uh, except for the fact that people can and do press the manuals.  Additionally its common practice with opened games to find the best "pieces" and combine them to create the best graded complete opened game package (cart, manuals, box) for the highest grade.  This is called 'marrying' in comics but in games its completely acceptable and not identified on any labels (which is understandable, but you're still buying a 'married' game).

Yep this is true. That's why there are graded CIB games with a beat up box grade graded say a 3.0 and high graded manuals and cartirdges in the 7.0 and up. All of which WATA averages them all out for the final grade you see in the front of the label. Not sure how VGA does it but they mark the labels as qualified for unsealed games I believe and that's it. This is commonly done for the rarer 1st print boxes to combine with other pieces. But there is a higher premium paid for CIB's games with a higher numerical grade for just the grade of the box, everything is would sometimes be easier to find.

This is why factory sealed games are commanding higher prices since everything is in it's original factory sealed state. 

Found this recent article that gives a little about the hobby and its outlook:

Video Game

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2 hours ago, dem1138 said:

Uh, except for the fact that people can and do press the manuals.  Additionally its common practice with opened games to find the best "pieces" and combine them to create the best graded complete opened game package (cart, manuals, box) for the highest grade.  This is called 'marrying' in comics but in games its completely acceptable and not identified on any labels (which is understandable, but you're still buying a 'married' game).

Well, if you reread my post, its clear that all of my comments were in the context of sealed vintage.   Obviously, you can't press or marry sealed items.

Opened games are a whole other discussion and you're correct that more shenanigans can occur there including pressing and marrying.

Opened games have never really interested me for the reasons you point out and because, well, they weren't really a challenge at the time.   

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1 hour ago, Dark Knight said:

Yep this is true. That's why there are graded CIB games with a beat up box grade graded say a 3.0 and high graded manuals and cartirdges in the 7.0 and up. All of which WATA averages them all out for the final grade you see in the front of the label. Not sure how VGA does it but they mark the labels as qualified for unsealed games I believe and that's it. This is commonly done for the rarer 1st print boxes to combine with other pieces. But there is a higher premium paid for CIB's games with a higher numerical grade for just the grade of the box, everything is would sometimes be easier to find.

This is why factory sealed games are commanding higher prices since everything is in it's original factory sealed state. 

Found this recent article that gives a little about the hobby and its outlook:

Video Game

I really disliked that article when it came out.   He solely focussed on values/money and while that's a facet of what's happening in every hobby, but its like he completely glossed over the fact that people love the material in the first place.

But, I guess that's not much different than the 'BAM POW ZOWIE comic books are now valuable' articles they've been writing for 50 years.   This one just seemed especially focussed on that aspect though.

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22 hours ago, Aman619 said:

Im not interested in buying these video games.... however, I don't agree pristine copies now slabbed and selling for huge numbers are somehow invalidated because they may have been unsold store stock.  Thats never been a consideration that trumps condition before in comics or baseball cards, or movie posters etc etc.  If a box of unsold Marvels comics from 1961 turned up today, would these books in miraculously high grade be less valuable than Curator or Western Penn copies because they never circulated?  How about the cases of 1952 Topps that contained around 40 Mantle rookies? Is no one buying them because they weren't left untouched in a kids sock drawer for 50 years and not in bicycle spokes or a plastic slab?  Or movie posters obtained from a printer but never displayed in a theatre lobby the sat in a collectors flat files ?  

Mint condition is mint condition, and when the demand is there they will sell for big dollars regardless of how they survived.  What I would be concerned about with toy and game packaged collectibles would be re-cellophane wrapped items.  If done right aren't there extremely hard to tell apart from real plastic wrapping?  assuming there are opened pieces in HG so as not to be obvious used VGs in new plastic.

 

Wellll... ummm... yes they would be less valuable. Curator 9.6 versus a random uncirculated 9.6 with no pedigree designation? 9 out of 10 times the Curator will sell for more. I thought this was pretty well established. Are we really debating whether a pedigree copy is worth the same as a same grade non-ped copy?

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Well, normally, I think I’d say I agree that a pedigree copy would sell for more than a non ped equal graded copy.  But since you’re refutin* my argument I’m leaning on not going so far as to say I’m wrong !  Didn’t the slabbin* phenomenon dilute pedigree status for many years?  It became apparent by sales prices that early on pedigrees were devalued by equally graded copies bein* sold for same prices, thta the grade was the important 5hing. These copies previous ly sold raw without a pedigree designation were worth mush less , but when both were in say 9.6 slabs, who cared.  Or at least, many collectors were just as happy to own the no name 9.6.   I suppose that now, 20 years into slabb8ng, with the census grown far more plentiful, pedigrees mystique has raised Their prices back above no names. That seems to be what have elevated pedigree copies back into top position demand wise. If there were still just two or three highest graded copies instead of 20 or 30, the no name sales would match the peds

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9 hours ago, Aman619 said:

Well, normally, I think I’d say I agree that a pedigree copy would sell for more than a non ped equal graded copy.  But since you’re refutin* my argument I’m leaning on not going so far as to say I’m wrong !  Didn’t the slabbin* phenomenon dilute pedigree status for many years?  It became apparent by sales prices that early on pedigrees were devalued by equally graded copies bein* sold for same prices, thta the grade was the important 5hing. These copies previous ly sold raw without a pedigree designation were worth mush less , but when both were in say 9.6 slabs, who cared.  Or at least, many collectors were just as happy to own the no name 9.6.   I suppose that now, 20 years into slabb8ng, with the census grown far more plentiful, pedigrees mystique has raised Their prices back above no names. That seems to be what have elevated pedigree copies back into top position demand wise. If there were still just two or three highest graded copies instead of 20 or 30, the no name sales would match the peds

Not that I can recall, no. For "many years"? I'm pretty sure this didn't happen. Maybe in the early days of CGC when there were 2-3 copies in high grade for a Silver book and people just wanted a copy. But that didn't last "many years" and we are talking about the realities of today's market, not a small sample of a few years when CGC first started out. I did look up a couple of key Spidey's as that title sells a bunch and there are lots of data points. For ASM 14 and 50, pedigree copies were selling for more than same grade non-ped copies even in the early 2000's. I know that doesn't mean that much and I just don't care enough to look up a lot of other books, I'm sure some can be found where a ped copy sold for less but in general, my perception is that ped copies have always sold for a premium. 

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8 minutes ago, LordRahl said:
10 hours ago, Aman619 said:

Well, normally, I think I’d say I agree that a pedigree copy would sell for more than a non ped equal graded copy.  But since you’re refutin* my argument I’m leaning on not going so far as to say I’m wrong !  Didn’t the slabbin* phenomenon dilute pedigree status for many years?  It became apparent by sales prices that early on pedigrees were devalued by equally graded copies bein* sold for same prices, thta the grade was the important 5hing. These copies previous ly sold raw without a pedigree designation were worth mush less , but when both were in say 9.6 slabs, who cared.  Or at least, many collectors were just as happy to own the no name 9.6.   I suppose that now, 20 years into slabb8ng, with the census grown far more plentiful, pedigrees mystique has raised Their prices back above no names. That seems to be what have elevated pedigree copies back into top position demand wise. If there were still just two or three highest graded copies instead of 20 or 30, the no name sales would match the peds

Not that I can recall, no. For "many years"? I'm pretty sure this didn't happen. Maybe in the early days of CGC when there were 2-3 copies in high grade for a Silver book and people just wanted a copy. But that didn't last "many years" and we are talking about the realities of today's market, not a small sample of a few years when CGC first started out. I did look up a couple of key Spidey's as that title sells a bunch and there are lots of data points. For ASM 14 and 50, pedigree copies were selling for more than same grade non-ped copies even in the early 2000's. I know that doesn't mean that much and I just don't care enough to look up a lot of other books, I'm sure some can be found where a ped copy sold for less but in general, my perception is that ped copies have always sold for a premium. 

Based upon my recollection, I would tend to agree with Aman's point of view that the "CGC pedigree" did indeed appear to be a pre-dominant factor in the pricing of books for a few years back then.  Of course, I am thinking more from a GA point of view and I clearly remember that the multiples for the Church books even seem to drop as the pedigree was no longer good enough since it also had to have the grade associated with it to pull in the real big dollars.  Certainly not the case anymore as the long established and big pedigrees like the Church books definitely came storming back after that temporary CGC pedigree lull.

As both of you have stated, the CGC pedigree phenomenon seems to have faded to a large extent due to the sheer number of copies in grade showing up in the census over the years.  I imagine it certainly also didn't help when the whole artificial maniipulation of books fiasco came to light and all of a sudden, maximization of potential became a full blown reality to the point of virtually taking over the marketplace.  In terms of the GA keys and HTF classic cover books, it is quite clear that the marketplace has changed radically from when CGC first started up, with huge prices now being paid for books in all grades across the entire condition spectrum, as opposed to just the copies in high grade only.  hm  :applause:

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