Heritage's Next Event Auction has started posting books !
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2,478 posts in this topic

10 hours ago, buttock said:

True, but as always, supply and demand.   For Batman and ASM, there's always multiple buyers for a 9.8, and they have money.  There isn't nearly the demand for the Church Fantastic #3 that there is for a Batman 181.  Ask any weekend dealer and you'll hear that it's one of the single most asked for books.  This sale capitalized on demand (all time high) and supply (despite everyone thinking that more are available, there aren't, and one hasn't sold in 6 years; an eternity in the internet era).  9.8 Charltons are probably rarer, but I don't think you'd see the same prices, although you also may only get one shot at those.  People keep saying that there are more 9.8s of this book out there, but knowing that even prior to this sale, you were looking at mid 5 figures... where are they?  

Dan, of course demand is an important component.  However, what we're talking about is unsophisticated, or perhaps impatient, demand that doesn't understand that the supply axis is not fixed.

Obviously a buyer is entitled to pay whatever he wants.  But the parallels for this sale are the moonshot prices we suddenly saw for 9.9 New Mutants #98 ("thus endeth the lesson"), 9.8 FF 52 and 9.8 TMNT 1.  I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure none of those buyers could recoup their purchase price today.

Yes, there is/was huge demand for those books, but unlike a Fantastic #3, supply was able to increase to meet that huge demand, at least enough to cause supply and demand to intersect at a lower price point.

As for why more copies haven't emerged even though prices were strong already, there's always been an odd phenomenon in this hobby of needing a huge spike, rather than just consistently strong prices, to bring copies from out of the woodwork.  I remember when I finally bought into the whole GL 76 scarcity in NM myth because prices seemed insanely strong for a BA book and yet there didn't seem to be a lot of 9.4 copies entering the census, thus finally convincing me that they really were that scarce.  And then a 9.6 copy came on the market and got a huge price that blew away all previous comps, and then the rush was on.  

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11 minutes ago, tth2 said:

and 9.8 TMNT 1.  I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure none of those buyers could recoup their purchase price today.

Uhhh...you must not be paying much attention to TMNT #1 lately.

However, while I generally agree that no one who collects comics and has ever paid more than 100$ for one should ever criticize anyone else for any comic purchase at any price...the 90k for a 9.8 first appearance of poison ivy strikes me as out of balance with other Batman related books like say Detective 140.  Looking at GPA the record price paid for one appears to be 38k.....  I think the Riddler at one time was a far more iconic batman villian, and there's no doubt the book is harder to come by in grade than Batman 181 in minty fresh condition ... but maybe poison ivy is more important to today's girly centric comic connoisseur? 

Maybe this is an apples to oranges comparison.  I dunno...it does seem like this 181 went to the moon just because "9.8".

 

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22 hours ago, buttock said:

I hope the buyer is really happy with their purchase

I hope so too.

Especially after they get to see it in hand and if that is actually a small piece of the Bat 181 floating around in that lower right hand corner

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35 minutes ago, tth2 said:

Dan, of course demand is an important component.  However, what we're talking about is unsophisticated, or perhaps impatient, demand that doesn't understand that the supply axis is not fixed.

Obviously a buyer is entitled to pay whatever he wants.  But the parallels for this sale are the moonshot prices we suddenly saw for 9.9 New Mutants #98 ("thus endeth the lesson"), 9.8 FF 52 and 9.8 TMNT 1.  I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure none of those buyers could recoup their purchase price today.

Yes, there is/was huge demand for those books, but unlike a Fantastic #3, supply was able to increase to meet that huge demand, at least enough to cause supply and demand to intersect at a lower price point.

As for why more copies haven't emerged even though prices were strong already, there's always been an odd phenomenon in this hobby of needing a huge spike, rather than just consistently strong prices, to bring copies from out of the woodwork.  I remember when I finally bought into the whole GL 76 scarcity in NM myth because prices seemed insanely strong for a BA book and yet there didn't seem to be a lot of 9.4 copies entering the census, thus finally convincing me that they really were that scarce.  And then a 9.6 copy came on the market and got a huge price that blew away all previous comps, and then the rush was on.  

I agree completely that impatience is an issue.  That's why I made the comment about the internet time frame.  If you want to get likes on instagram, you've got to have the goods. 

 

But you also have to consider that there was an underbidder, and that means there's more than one person willing to pay this level of price.  That's where the fact that this is a 9.8 Batman key comes into play.  It's one of the 2 most popular characters.  So although there are 3 on the census, there are more than 3 people wanting the book.  

 

And again, when it comes to the price, although $90K seems like a LOT to most of us for a book of arguable significance, to the buyer that may be the absolute grail or a book that fills a hole they've been after for 10-20 years.  And if it's discretionary money, more power to them.  I say congratulations and I hope they are really happy with the purchase.  

 

And let's keep in mind that we're at 20 years of CGC certification now.  In the first few years the crazy prices for top census books were clearly hard to justify.  But the GL 76 9.6 sale was what, 10 years ago?  Maybe longer?  That's a generational leap in collecting time.  I give a bit more merit to top census copies now.  And again, this wasn't a CPR 9.8, this was an original owner book.  So despite the money out there for other copies, they aren't turning up.  

 

 

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On 11/21/2020 at 11:06 AM, SteveDuin said:

Meanwhile ....

Screen Shot 2020-11-21 at 8.02.39 AM.png

Not that I would be interested in any of those 3 at those prices, but if I had to pick one it would probably be the Batman 181.

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2 hours ago, szav said:

...the 90k for a 9.8 first appearance of poison ivy strikes me as out of balance with other Batman related books like say Detective 140.  Looking at GPA the record price paid for one appears to be 38k.....  I think the Riddler at one time was a far more iconic batman villian, and there's no doubt the book is harder to come by in grade than Batman 181 in minty fresh condition ... but maybe poison ivy is more important to today's girly centric comic connoisseur? 

Maybe this is an apples to oranges comparison.  I dunno...it does seem like this 181 went to the moon just because "9.8".

 

I think Poison Ivy has been more important to the Batman mythos than Riddler for about 20 years now. Was just looking at GPA on the other big SA Batman Villain firsts (121, 171, 181, and 189) and see that 121 has an $80K sale, and 171 has a $41K sale in 9.6 (highest graded), so the 181 doesn't seem that out of line since Ivy is certainly more popular/important than the other two. Maybe the big takeaway though is that 189 is really undervalued with a top sales price of $3300

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2 hours ago, szav said:

Uhhh...you must not be paying much attention to TMNT #1 lately.

However, while I generally agree that no one who collects comics and has ever paid more than 100$ for one should ever criticize anyone else for any comic purchase at any price...the 90k for a 9.8 first appearance of poison ivy strikes me as out of balance with other Batman related books like say Detective 140.  Looking at GPA the record price paid for one appears to be 38k.....  I think the Riddler at one time was a far more iconic batman villian, and there's no doubt the book is harder to come by in grade than Batman 181 in minty fresh condition ... but maybe poison ivy is more important to today's girly centric comic connoisseur? 

Maybe this is an apples to oranges comparison.  I dunno...it does seem like this 181 went to the moon just because "9.8".

 

The Batman 181 is 'iconic' for many reasons.  It's an oft-reprinted cover and I believe it was the Batman book on the newsstands when the Batman TV series debuted, so if you learned about Batman through the show and went looking for it at your local store, it's what you saw.  So it likely got burned into many a child's memory.  

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23 minutes ago, Crowzilla said:

I think Poison Ivy has been more important to the Batman mythos than Riddler for about 20 years now.

I probably missed this during my 20 year hiatus...so I can see her being more important now.  I'm glad she's recovered from the 1997 Batman and Robin movie, because when I think Poison Ivy I think Uma Thurman and it takes a special kind of movie to make Uma Thurman look bad, but they somehow pulled it off.

 

26 minutes ago, bluechip said:

The Batman 181 is 'iconic' for many reasons

Good to know, not being heavy in to DC hero comics maybe I have been overlooking the keyness of 181.  Maybe 90k isn't that unreasonable in a relative sense.

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1 hour ago, szav said:

I probably missed this during my 20 year hiatus...so I can see her being more important now.  I'm glad she's recovered from the 1997 Batman and Robin movie, because when I think Poison Ivy I think Uma Thurman and it takes a special kind of movie to make Uma Thurman look bad, but they somehow pulled it off.

 

Good to know, not being heavy in to DC hero comics maybe I have been overlooking the keyness of 181.  Maybe 90k isn't that unreasonable in a relative sense.

Make no mistake.  90K is still absurd because it's not rare in any condition that 99.99999 % of people could even discern, let alone agree with or care about .  Part of the reason it's 'iconic' is that occurred during a peak time of Bat-frenzy and when they printed mountains of books and almost NOBODY was throwing them out.  Uncirculated copies of the book were freely available less than a dozen years ago from warehouse finds.  

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3 hours ago, Crowzilla said:

I think Poison Ivy has been more important to the Batman mythos than Riddler for about 20 years now.

 

2 hours ago, batman_fan said:

Scarecrow is the number 1 villain outside the Joker.  End of story :sumo:

Well, if you watch the recently completed Gotham TV series, it's really all about the Penguin right from start to finish.  :gossip:

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3 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

 

Well, if you watch the recently completed Gotham TV series, it's really all about the Penguin right from start to finish.  :gossip:

:sick:  Still scarred from the 1992 Batman movie with the Penguin.  Not sure I will ever recover.

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3 minutes ago, dem1138 said:

My old next door apartment neighbor for about 18 months right up until he was cast in the role and just started shooting.  Prior to that he was struggling to get any roles after finding early notoriety in a small role in the movie Accepted.  He was (and hopefully still is) one of the nicest, sweetest guys I knew.  Couldn't have been happier for his success.

Super nice guy. Knew him up at Northwestern. 

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1 minute ago, Chicago Boy said:

Super nice guy. Knew him up at Northwestern. 

Small world...and one of his best friends at Northwestern was Billy Eichner...who I met in Robyn's apartment back when Billy was doing a web series call 'Billy on the Street.'  Unbelievalbe to have known them back then and then watching their meteoric rise.

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