So, Why Has AF #15 Continued to Drop In Value? 8 8

[Glassman10]

3 hours ago, jeffreyk said:

That price is another very good sale for AF 15, especially with the tape.  It looks to me based on the past few sales that the book has come back fairly strong. 

At that price, it's higher then the street price the AF15 as a 5.0 was bringing in early 2017 when I was looking initially to market mine.  At that time, I recall the AF15 at 30K, not more. The big upsweep went on as the year progressed to 50K being notable in the latter half of the year. I was floored when Bob told me what he was going to ask for my 5.0 .  That price brought a whole bunch of comparable copies to market and I think caused something of a glut. Dealing with Bob was really easy. His fee was fair and he certainly demonstrated good connections. The market came to us, we were never buffeted by whim at auction. 

[lou_fine]

On 11/21/2019 at 8:12 AM, blazingbob said:

Forgive me if I don't remember Steve's proposal but I'm guessing you wanted to see

8.0

R - 0 Blue label as an example for a unrestored book?

8.0

R - 1 professional slight

Label states what work was done.

 

 

Bob;

Actually, I believe Steve's original proposal that he made at first was for a 15-point Restoration Rating System up to R-15 which was to be either no resto or the lowest form of resto since his thought was that it was always good to have a higher number, similar to the grading levels.  

If I remember correcrtly, that idea was quickly pushed aside as everybody here said it made much more sense to go the other way since although it was indeed good to have the highest grade possible, it was also good to have the lowest amount (or preferably none at all) of restoration on a book as possible.  The 10-point Restoration Rating system would also be in synch numerically since we already had a 10-point condition grading system in place.  Plus the fact that this idea was already previously proposed and detailed in an excellent article written by Jon Berk in an earlier edition of the Comic Book Marketplace magazine.  

Unfortunately for the hobby place, like any other good idea that is thrown open to the masses for their input and design, it resulted in nothing but controversy and ended up never being implemented.  As expected, there was a whole ton of talk on the baords here about the various types and extent of restoration and their resulting impact on the final determination of the restoration rate.  Likewise, I am sure that if CGC had used the same approach and had opened up the entire 10-point grading system to the collecting base for input and feedback prior to coming up with the final determination or design of the 10-point condition grading system, it also would have had resulted in nothing but controversy.  No doubt, everybody here would have been arguing endlessly about each type of defect and its extent as to its impact on the final grade         and nothing would have been achieved in the end.  

I am quite sure the reason CGC took this "open" approach at the time was that this came right on the heels of the whole Jason Ewert micro-trimming debacle.  No doubt, also still chafing quite badly from the fact that they had also just been absolutely raked over the coals here after having to admit that the whole manipulation of books through undisclosed pressing to obtain higher grades was   actually not considered to be restoration from their point of view (which it had always generally been recognized as such prior to that time), but instead now deemed to be something called "maximization of potential".  Especially when it was also discovered that this was in fact a nefarious and hidden practice which had been employed by only certain people in the know during the prior few years to launder these books through CGC and make bags of money off an unsuspecting marketplace.  

Needless to say, in this rather toxic and negative environment which the hobby found itself in at the time, any change or idea (whether good or bad) would be doomed to failure as nobody was willing to believe much of anything that CGC was saying at the time. Especially after they were seen as knowingly facilitating the the manipulation of books without even bothering to disclosed to the marketplace about their subtle, but highly significant change to the long held generally accepted definition of restoration at the time within the hobby.  Coupled with fact that they were also unknowingly letting micro-trimmed books from one of their biggest customers slipped through as unrestored books.  As a result of all this controversy, the marketplace saw this feeble attempt as nothing more than possibly another money making scam for CGC to help unscrupulous dealers and scam artists to foist even more restored books as unrestored books onto an unsuspecting marketplace.    

Okay, enough of this history lesson and back to either the falling or plateauing of prices for AF 15's.    

 

[fishbone]

   On 11/22/2019 at 11:20 AM, peewee22 said:

Where there is an AF15 there is always a  buyer..

And at the same time, where there is an AF 15, there is also always a seller.... 

 

[GAMBIT]

17 hours ago, fishbone said:

   On 11/22/2019 at 11:20 AM, peewee22 said:

Where there is an AF15 there is always a  buyer..

And at the same time, where there is an AF 15, there is also always a seller.... 

 

which can be said for 99.9% of all SA books  

 

(leaving that .1% to your imagination )

[gadzukes]

On 11/21/2019 at 11:44 PM, Gotham Kid said:

AF 15 5.0 ( tp cvr) 5.0 38K

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/superhero/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-vg-fn-50-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7212-92217.s?ic2=mytracked-lotspage-lotlinks-12202013&tab=MyTrackedLots-101116

 

 

Have restoration experts definitively figured out a way to remove celophane tape like this?  The tape is SO huge and distracting on this cover.  Remove the tape and this is a really nice looking 5.0.  I don't know if it would gain in grade, but it would sure look nicer.

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, gadzukes said:

Have restoration experts definitively figured out a way to remove celophane tape like this?  The tape is SO huge and distracting on this cover.  Remove the tape and this is a really nice looking 5.0.  I don't know if it would gain in grade, but it would sure look nicer.

Yes they often can but you risk colour/paper loss.

-J.

[KPR Comics]

How does tape removal increase grade?  Did CGC reverse it's tape policy?

[lou_fine]

51 minutes ago, KPR Comics said:

How does tape removal increase grade?  Did CGC reverse it's tape policy?

Yes, they did way back in April of 2013:

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/3327/CGC-Modifies-Stance-on-Grading-Submissions-with-Tape/

So basically, CGC will now grade the book as if the tape was not there which means they will downgrade accordingly for the flaw that the tape is masking.  

[KPR Comics]

That’s my point.  Tape removal shouldn’t increase grade 

[comicdonna]

Tape should be considered a defect, and downgraded as such.  

[KPR Comics]

Should, perhaps.  But that's not CGC policy.

[gadzukes]

I would think CGC couldn't help but downgrade for the amount of tape on the 5.0 AF15.  From what I can tell by the photos there isn't a tear on the front cover and only a small tear on the back cover.  That's a LOT of tape for that.  

If resto experts could guarantee a nice tape removal, it would be a really nice candidate to have the tape removal done.  Even if the grade stayed the same the eye appeal would be outstanding (and the value would go up).

Edited November 25, 2019 by gadzukes

[Moondog]

On 6/23/2019 at 9:51 AM, october said:

Yes. I tried to buy that copy when it was raw, but the seller and I couldn't quite come to terms. I regret not just manning up, but it would have been an all time high price and the PQ (which was obviously CR/OW) and the back cover staining/paper loss made me hesitate. Front cover wise though...it's the best 5.0 I have ever seen. Beautiful front. Exceptional.

I'm a bit late to this party but I thought I'd give my opinion of the $57K sale.  When Andy inspected it while sitting at my kitchen table I really thought he was going to go the $40K I wanted, but I wouldn't budge off that price and no one can blame him for not pulling the trigger. It was A LOT of money for that book that day.

I was not happy with the "stock" AF 15 description that CC was using for the listing so I told them I would do it.  Here's the description I wrote for the CC catalog:  This issue of the hottest Silver Age book in the hobby came from a collection of high-grade beauties.  Unfortunately some of the books weren't stored properly and this particular copy sustained some back cover damage.  The front cover appears to be a solid 8.0/8.5 with no chipping and a beautiful brown logo area that just pops.  The yellows and reds are magnificent.  The back cover looks better than its technical grade, but the staining understandably knocks the book down considerably.  If you were ever looking for a copy of Amazing Fantasy 15 with a quality of presentation of a VF or VF+, but couldn't afford that hefty price tag, this is the book for you!  I believe strongly that if I did not rewrite that description the book would never had made $50K.

In my opinion this sale is the ultimate AF 15 outlier.  That book will stay in the holder for the remainder of time, and anyone looking at that front cover will be awe struck.

[blazingbob]

Gary's first proposal for the write up was unfortunately edited.  "Unfortunately some of the books weren't stored properly and this particular copy sustained some back cover damage.  The front cover appears to be a solid 8.0/8.5 with no chipping and a beautiful brown logo area that just pops your rocks.  The yellows and reds are magnificent but as you know blue can be dangerous.  The back cover looks better than its technical grade, but the owner couldn't control himself and staining understandably knocks the book down considerably.  If you were ever looking for a copy of Amazing Fantasy 15 with a quality of presentation of a VF or VF+, but couldn't afford that hefty price tag, this is the book for you!  

 

[Moondog]

9 hours ago, blazingbob said:

Gary's first proposal for the write up was unfortunately edited.  "Unfortunately some of the books weren't stored properly and this particular copy sustained some back cover damage.  The front cover appears to be a solid 8.0/8.5 with no chipping and a beautiful brown logo area that just pops your rocks.  The yellows and reds are magnificent but as you know blue can be dangerous.  The back cover looks better than its technical grade, but the owner couldn't control himself and staining understandably knocks the book down considerably.  If you were ever looking for a copy of Amazing Fantasy 15 with a quality of presentation of a VF or VF+, but couldn't afford that hefty price tag, this is the book for you!  

 

Thank god for editors!

[Silver Age Stud]

I've always wanted to own a 1.5-2.5 version of this book so hopefully the prices fall. So I can liquidate my collection and own this.

[AJCohen]

As everyone is using this thread to bash my beloved AF15 I thought I would use it for a positive spin.

I am trying to pick up a 3.0 for my brother and just lost out tonight to the one on Comiclink that closed at $14,750. So bummed. If anyone has a 3.0 lead I would love to help him get one to match the one I got from Bunky here on the forum. Thanks for your help! Here is a pic of the one I just missed.

AJ

[piper]

1 hour ago, AJCohen said:

As everyone is using this thread to bash my beloved AF15 I thought I would use it for a positive spin.

I am trying to pick up a 3.0 for my brother and just lost out tonight to the one on Comiclink that closed at $14,750. So bummed. If anyone has a 3.0 lead I would love to help him get one to match the one I got from Bunky here on the forum. Thanks for your help! Here is a pic of the one I just missed.

AJ

That seems like a really good price for the buyer?

[AJCohen]

59 minutes ago, piper said:

That seems like a really good price for the buyer?

Pretty much all of them were good deals.

3.0 at 14750

3.5 at 17100

4.0 at 20222

5.0 at 31500

[Hepcat]

Does not Amazing Fantasy 15 lead all other comics when it comes to total market value of all slabbed copies? If so, that might explain why the price has "stalled". It's just too expensive a comic given the available supply.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Hepcat