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So, Why Has AF #15 Continued to Drop In Value?
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1,031 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

It wasn't a judgement,

Just as if I'd said "I don't understand how someone can find a Corvette attractive" if I found them unattractive.

A judgement would be if I said it was wrong.

 

I don't understand how someone can make that argument.

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On 1/11/2020 at 3:22 PM, MrBedrock said:

Gosh Roy. You are so cool. You managed in one post to 1) show how experienced you are in this hobby with your neat old funnybooks that you used to own back in the day, 2) show how genuine and pure your collecting interests are because you flip through old paper, and 3) judge another collector who doesn't collect exactly like you do, demonstrating just how wrong they are.

Good job bro!

Not to mention 4) completely undermine your own value proposition as a seller of slabbed keys to collectors just like the one you insulted.  A truly bravura performance.

Edited by Sweet Lou 14
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On 1/12/2020 at 8:55 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Not to mention 4) completely undermine your own value proposition as a seller of slabbed keys to collectors just like the one you insulted.  A truly bravura performance.

My comment really was indirectly related to your comment about using Masterworks but was more directed at Joe Ankenbauer's comments (quoted below but which are actually from several pages back) about it being 'just plain nuts' reading expensive slabbed books.

That's why I quoted Joe's quote and your quote when I posted that initial reply. I wanted Joe to see my reply.

I was trying to show that it isn't 'plain nuts' and that people do it all the time. Bedrock, PeeWee, adamstrange, me, just to name a few.

 

Compared to the old chat board software, the quoting system on this new chat forum software is not very easy to use when you want to quote multiple quotes from different pages and I was lazy in not quoting the most important part of my point (which is now quoted below)

 

So I guess, does Joe Ankenbauer deserve retribution for calling people who crack their slabs nuts?

Where was the outrage when Joe "insulted" a bunch of collectors? :makepoint:

I wasn't offended by his comments. I was simply offering another perspective

 

Should anyone be getting offended? Come on people, lighten up. It was just meant to be a fun discussion.

 

On 1/2/2020 at 6:43 PM, Joe Ankenbauer said:

Seriously? If you had a Fine copy of Amazing Fantasy #15, you would read it every once in a while? That's just plain nuts.

I have a copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 in CGC 0.5. When I bought it in the early 2000s, I paid $600 for it. I had it slabbed 2 - 3 years ago, and it's now sitting in a safe deposit box. The thought of reading that issue NEVER crossed my mind. With all the Masterworks, Essentials, Omnibus(es), and Epic collections available, along with Marvel Online, you can easily read it at virtually any time.

I'm sure I'm going to be pilloried as a person who doesn't care about comics, but that is far from the truth. I have a full run of Fantastic Four, Amazing Spider-Man, and Daredevil. I have read virtually every comic in my collection. When I started on these expensive back issues, I didn't need to read that comic. I had read it earlier, most likely by using Marvel Collectors' Item Classics. It was most likely that I read the first 20+ issues of all the Silver Age Marvel super-heroes that way.

So, go ahead and read a comic that's worth $60,000 whenever you want. I'm sure that nothing will happen to it

Edited by VintageComics
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6 hours ago, VintageComics said:

My comment really was indirectly related to your comment about using Masterworks but was more directed at Joe Ankenbauer's comments (quoted below but which are actually from several pages back) about it being 'just plain nuts' reading expensive slabbed books.

That's why I quoted Joe's quote and your quote when I posted that initial reply. I wanted Joe to see my reply.

I was trying to show that it isn't 'plain nuts' and that people do it all the time. Bedrock, PeeWee, adamstrange, me, just to name a few.

 

Compared to the old chat board software, the quoting system on this new chat forum software is not very easy to use when you want to quote multiple quotes from different pages and I was lazy in not quoting the most important part of my point (which is now quoted below)

 

So I guess, does Joe Ankenbauer deserve retribution for calling people who crack their slabs nuts?

Where was the outrage when Joe "insulted" a bunch of collectors? :makepoint:

I wasn't offended by his comments. I was simply offering another perspective

 

Should anyone be getting offended? Come on people, lighten up. It was just meant to be a fun discussion.

 

Posts making fun of slabs need to come with trigger warnings. 

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13 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Should anyone be getting offended? Come on people, lighten up. It was just meant to be a fun discussion.

 

For the record, I am not offended.  But I will say, I found it very odd that my innocent posts about my personal collecting preferences were met with such an unsupportive and critical reaction.  I never once told anyone what they should do with their collection.  Conversely, all I'm asking is that nobody try to do that to me.

Also I should mention that I have several old raw books lying around and that I am always sure to hang one of them around my neck while reading my Marvel Masterworks so that I get the full sensory experience.  So far, I haven't noticed any difference in smell between a Ditko Spidey in 9.4, a Kirby FF in 9.0, or a raw VG- Classics Illustrated that I can't remember how or when I got.

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1 hour ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

But I will say, I found it very odd that my innocent posts about my personal collecting preferences were met with such an unsupportive and critical reaction.  I never once told anyone what they should do with their collection.  Conversely, all I'm asking is that nobody try to do that to me.

Context is important. I've been here for 16 years and never once told someone how to collect. If anything, I've always been supportive of people to collect however they feel suits them best, so if you felt that way it wasn't intentional.

And as I said, it was a bit of a mix-up, mainly in part because of laziness on my part because I didn't go searching down Joe's old post a few pages prior and quoting it into the discussion.

Little did I know the reaction I'd get. Apologies.

1 hour ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

So far, I haven't noticed any difference in smell between a Ditko Spidey in 9.4, a Kirby FF in 9.0, or a raw VG- Classics Illustrated that I can't remember how or when I got.

Again (and this just goes for me) the thrill has always been to handle the real thing, not a similar thing.

If I want to hold a Ditko Spidey in 9.4 raw then substituting a similar smelling book isn't the same, in much the same way that driving around in a Porsche 356 Replica is not the same as driving the real thing. Even if sometimes the replica is more reliable and less tempermental than the original.

For me, it's about the authenticity of the experience and how close I can get to the day that any particular book was printed (or collectible was made).

For me, that is what collecting has always been about, no matter what I collected.

--------------------------------------------

I'll be clear so that there is no misunderstandings: I've always believed people can collect whatever they want and I've never begrudged anyone for how they collect (although I do admit I've several times lamented about the latest wave of fad and movie collectors who just chase the hot item of the day but again, to each their own) and I've even stood up for people's unpopular collecting habits and taken flak for it on here from other boardies.

So hopefully we can all get along here and move past this.

Edited by VintageComics
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16 hours ago, VintageComics said:

My comment really was indirectly related to your comment about using Masterworks but was more directed at Joe Ankenbauer's comments (quoted below but which are actually from several pages back) about it being 'just plain nuts' reading expensive slabbed books.

That's why I quoted Joe's quote and your quote when I posted that initial reply. I wanted Joe to see my reply.

I was trying to show that it isn't 'plain nuts' and that people do it all the time. Bedrock, PeeWee, adamstrange, me, just to name a few.

 

Compared to the old chat board software, the quoting system on this new chat forum software is not very easy to use when you want to quote multiple quotes from different pages and I was lazy in not quoting the most important part of my point (which is now quoted below)

 

So I guess, does Joe Ankenbauer deserve retribution for calling people who crack their slabs nuts?

Where was the outrage when Joe "insulted" a bunch of collectors? :makepoint:

I wasn't offended by his comments. I was simply offering another perspective

 

Should anyone be getting offended? Come on people, lighten up. It was just meant to be a fun discussion.

 

In retrospect, calling a fellow collector "nuts" was a very POOR choice of words. I should have stated that <I> would not feel comfortable opening a fine copy of Amazing Fantasy #15. Just because someone else <WOULD> feel comfortable in doing so, that's his/her choice.

When I got my copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 (keep in mind, the bottom third of the cover was torn off), I put on some latex gloves, I went to a room where I could be completely alone (we still had kids at this time), and I did <CAREFULLY> look at each page. So, to me, I didn't read it, I scanned it. I was still in my late 40s/early fifties at that time.

Today, scanning or reading a very expensive issue is not something I feel comfortable in doing. As I have aged (63+), I notice that I tend to have more "accidents", such as spilling, tripping, dropping, etc. In addition, my hands have a tendency to shake when I'm nervous. Even if I tried to be extra cautious, I don't think that I can <GUARANTEE> that I wouldn't trip while carrying the book, or I wouldn't drop the book, or that my hand wouldn't shake while turning the pages. And my concern is with an Amazing Fantasy #15 in CGC 0.5 condition, which, at best, is worth $6000 - $7000. My hands would be shaking like a leaf if I was trying to handle a fine copy valued at approximately $60000.

If anyone interpreted my message as me telling someone how to deal or enjoy his/her collection, I certainly apologize. I did write those words that VintageComics has attributed to me, and I now have to live with the repercussions.

 

Joe

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1 hour ago, Joe Ankenbauer said:

In retrospect, calling a fellow collector "nuts" was a very POOR choice of words. I should have stated that <I> would not feel comfortable opening a fine copy of Amazing Fantasy #15. Just because someone else <WOULD> feel comfortable in doing so, that's his/her choice.

When I got my copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 (keep in mind, the bottom third of the cover was torn off), I put on some latex gloves, I went to a room where I could be completely alone (we still had kids at this time), and I did <CAREFULLY> look at each page. So, to me, I didn't read it, I scanned it. I was still in my late 40s/early fifties at that time.

Today, scanning or reading a very expensive issue is not something I feel comfortable in doing. As I have aged (63+), I notice that I tend to have more "accidents", such as spilling, tripping, dropping, etc. In addition, my hands have a tendency to shake when I'm nervous. Even if I tried to be extra cautious, I don't think that I can <GUARANTEE> that I wouldn't trip while carrying the book, or I wouldn't drop the book, or that my hand wouldn't shake while turning the pages. And my concern is with an Amazing Fantasy #15 in CGC 0.5 condition, which, at best, is worth $6000 - $7000. My hands would be shaking like a leaf if I was trying to handle a fine copy valued at approximately $60000.

If anyone interpreted my message as me telling someone how to deal or enjoy his/her collection, I certainly apologize. I did write those words that VintageComics has attributed to me, and I now have to live with the repercussions.

 

Joe

It's ok for any collector to decide whether to open the book of his/her choice, original or repro. I like the smell of old paper and ink and just the feeling of "being there". I wish I had a low grade AF15 to enjoy. The value of 1st editions has prevented the average collector from enjoying the books but my first preference would be to open an original not a repro. To all...(thumbsu

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I'll weigh in because I like this topic! 

I've been collecting since I was in high school. 20 years or so.  When I bought silver age books, I never opened them. In fact I still have dozens of raw books, bagged and boarded that I've never opened. I'm never going to be one to crack a slab open so I can read it and most of my 4 figure books are slabbed to be protected. 

That said,  my 7 year old thinks owning comics and not reading them is ridiculous. And he's right!  Collecting has been really fun the last few years because we've been buying golden age and silver age books together and carefully reading the old stories and checking out the old ads!  We even read my Avengers 1 before sending it off to CGC. 

So I can see it both ways. I don't want to damage a rare or valuable book. But there is something so cool about reading those stories and carefully turning through the pages. It's like an event! 

My son and I have been buying allot of the true believers reprints and reading the big keys,  but if I was lucky enough to get a raw FF1 or Hulk 1, I would very carefully read it. 

Also,  Joe - your comment was totally not insulting!  

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