So, Why Has AF #15 Continued to Drop In Value? 8 8

[Glassman10]

Let me tell you where the bus wound up. A lurid detail is missing here, or should be...Horrific end for orange metal.

[LordRahl]

22 hours ago, Batmanis#1 said:

Meh not bad I guess but like many I would prefer better quality paper since SA books are more common so why not just be picky. This same book with say off-white pages bet you it would be closer to 42k. Then white pages more like 50k.

I am sorry but that piece by his foot is not good imagine if that gets worse (I know it is slabbed but if ever it shakes around or is sent back to CGC). This to me is a book not worth a penny more than what it sold for (for the moment). Of course great for the buyer he owns a huge key but it is what it is. There are no deals you get what you pay for like anything in life.

Early SA with white pages absolutely do not command a 40% premium over cream/off white, especially at this price point.

[peewee22]

6 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

Early SA with white pages absolutely do not command a 40% premium over cream/off white, especially at this price point.

Probably not but I would much rather have a book with fresher pq esp white. Normally means the book was preserved better. C/OW could have darker transfer stains on the inside covers, etc. I would pay more for white pages. 

[LordRahl]

2 hours ago, peewee22 said:

Probably not but I would much rather have a book with fresher pq esp white. Normally means the book was preserved better. C/OW could have darker transfer stains on the inside covers, etc. I would pay more for white pages. 

Of course. Everyone would. But not enough to pay that big of a premium. Honestly I doubt the premium is more than 5% on early SA assuming everything else is equal, which is hardly ever the case. A better presenting 8.0 with c/ow will most likely sell for more than a lesser presenting 8.0 with white pages. The "look" of the book for the grade matters more than the page quality, at least as far as what I usually track and bid on. 

[LordRahl]

1 hour ago, Batmanis#1 said:

Just a guess do not panic. I could have easily said 46k or whatever was to prove a point that paper quality matters.

Zero panic. Yes, page quality matters. It just doesn't matter nearly 40% worth.

[jimjum12]

1 hour ago, LordRahl said:

4 hours ago, peewee22 said:

Probably not but I would much rather have a book with fresher pq esp white. Normally means the book was preserved better. C/OW could have darker transfer stains on the inside covers, etc. I would pay more for white pages. 

Of course. Everyone would. But not enough to pay that big of a premium. Honestly I doubt the premium is more than 5% on early SA assuming everything else is equal, which is hardly ever the case. A better presenting 8.0 with c/ow will most likely sell for more than a lesser presenting 8.0 with white pages. The "look" of the book for the grade matters more than the page quality, at least as far as what I usually track and bid on. 

One thing that I've found with the BA and CA high grade market is that there are many collectors who will ONLY buy White pages. I would imagine this would be true for SA high end as well. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[alexgross.com]

On 3/7/2020 at 6:18 PM, Dark Knight said:

Shhhh.. you don't want Jaydog to storm in this thread 

just put him on ignore, like i have. it makes this site much more enjoyable!

[LordRahl]

38 minutes ago, jimjum12 said:

One thing that I've found with the BA and CA high grade market is that there are many collectors who will ONLY buy White pages. I would imagine this would be true for SA high end as well. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

You're talking about completely different markets but yes for BA and CA, a lot of people only buy white pages. Of course, for CA, it's harder to find a book with something less than white pages than it is a white pager.

[jimjum12]

3 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

You're talking about completely different markets but yes for BA and CA, a lot of people only buy white pages. Of course, for CA, it's harder to find a book with something less than white pages than it is a white pager.

I have SA buyers who only buy White pages, just not enough experience there to talk about trends.... but high end SA isn't my specialty. My point is that there are collectors who aren't even interested in anything else. I'm not even sure how the conclusion by some that PQ doesn't matter was ever taken seriously.... in the last 40 years. in my experience, this has never been the case. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo( afriend of jesus)

[LordRahl]

Just now, jimjum12 said:

I have SA buyers who only buy White pages, just not enough experience there to talk about trends.... but high end SA isn't my specialty. My point is that there are collectors who aren't even interested in anything else. I'm not even sure how the conclusion by some that PQ doesn't matter was ever taken seriously.... in the last 40 years. in my experience, this has never been the case. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo( afriend of jesus)

Hang on a sec. Who said page quality doesn't matter? I sure didn't. What I said is that early SA with white pages doesn't command anything even close to a 40% premium. 

[jimjum12]

1 hour ago, LordRahl said:

Hang on a sec. Who said page quality doesn't matter? I sure didn't. What I said is that early SA with white pages doesn't command anything even close to a 40% premium. 

I wasn't talking about you, bro …. and 40% premiums are delusional, but assigning percentages when many specimens aren't even receiving bids is difficult. That's all I'm saying. Unfortunately, PQ is kind of moot in the slab market, except with people like me who actually remove books from slabs. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

… personally, I never thought I'd see SA keys fetching 7 figures, but I suppose it was inevitable. In the coin market there are hundreds of sales that have eclipsed 7 figures.

Edited March 9, 2020 by jimjum12

[lou_fine]

5 hours ago, Batmanis#1 said:

6 hours ago, LordRahl said:

Early SA with white pages absolutely do not command a 40% premium over cream/off white, especially at this price point.

Just a guess do not panic. I could have easily said 46k or whatever was to prove a point that paper quality matters.

And for all of us know nothing boardies here, I believe this is where we need to call in our resident PQ valuation expert @Jaydogrules to school us once again on the very complicated and confusing intricacies of PQ.       

[peewee22]

53 minutes ago, jimjum12 said:

I wasn't talking about you, bro …. and 40% premiums are delusional, but assigning percentages when many specimens aren't even receiving bids is difficult. That's all I'm saying. Unfortunately, PQ is kind of moot in the slab market, except with people like me who actually remove books from slabs. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

… personally, I never thought I'd see SA keys fetching 6 7 figures, but I suppose it was inevitable. In the coin market there are hundreds of sales that have eclipsed 6 figures.

I think the 9.6 AF15 surpassed a mil.

Edited March 9, 2020 by peewee22

[jimjum12]

6 minutes ago, peewee22 said:

I think the 9.6 AF15 surpassed a mil.

Thank you.... I meant 7 figures. I'll correct my post. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[JollyComics]

5 hours ago, peewee22 said:

I think the 9.6 AF15 surpassed a mil.

Just confirmed this:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/03/08/spider-man-shocker-best-known-copy-of-amazing-fantasy-15-goes-for-1-1-million/

[NoMan]

4 hours ago, JollyComics said:

Just confirmed this:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/03/08/spider-man-shocker-best-known-copy-of-amazing-fantasy-15-goes-for-1-1-million/

that is a nice copy.

[NoMan]

On 3/7/2020 at 6:23 PM, Batmanis#1 said:

Don't know him?

now you've done it.

[namisgr]

3 hours ago, JollyComics said:

Just confirmed this:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/03/08/spider-man-shocker-best-known-copy-of-amazing-fantasy-15-goes-for-1-1-million/

Thank you for confirming the confirmation.

On 3/5/2020 at 3:13 PM, namisgr said:

ComicConnect sold a 9.6 copy nine years ago for $1.1 million.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/03/08/spider-man-shocker-best-known-copy-of-amazing-fantasy-15-goes-for-1-1-million/

[jjonahjameson11]

10 hours ago, jimjum12 said:

One thing that I've found with the BA and CA high grade market is that there are many collectors who will ONLY buy White pages. I would imagine this would be true for SA high end as well. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Meh, not necessarily.  Because BA and CA books are more recent, and benefitted from the availability of comic supplies to preserve condition (bags, boards) + knowledge of rising prices/storage conditions, I expect far more copies were better preserved than SA, and SHOULD have white pages, versus Silver Age books.  So for the aforementioned reasons, I think less collectors are inclined to seek out SA books with ONLY white pages.

[Jaydogrules]

On 3/7/2020 at 6:37 PM, Dark Knight said:

Well, you will if he chimes in .  Basically his argument is that it doesn't matter what the page quality of the book is (except for brittle), there is really no premium price between say a white paged copy vs. cream-offwhite copy if you have the same kind of book side by side with the same kind of defects.

....Close.

My argument, that I have repeatedly made a case for by showing actual comps, is that, much like whatever "PQ" CGC decides to put on a label, the sales data is also so random and inconsistent that no reasonable conclusion can be drawn or proven either way.  It is all just anecdotal and guesswork and nobody can get inside the head of a buyer or know why he or she made a decision to pay "X" for a book.

So what does it all mean ?

It means nothing.  

-J.