AF15 Conundrum
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7 minutes ago, boomtown said:

Is it really that much different than having a book mutilated to remove color touch? They are both removing chunks of the book in order to go from restored to a blue label.

And why would they want to do that?

The real motivation is

:flipbait:

"Let's damage the book some more to increase the value" seems crazy to me, but it is what it is.

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Posted (edited)

CCS removed touch from my 4.5 PLOD X-Men #1 and regraded to 4.5 Blue. That kind of thing happens all the time. Very little difference here. 

 

Edited by MatterEaterLad
Clarification

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2 hours ago, boomtown said:

Is it really that much different than having a book mutilated to remove color touch? They are both removing chunks of the book in order to go from restored to a blue label.

No argument but the current example is not color touch. For this example, the book is trimmed. The owner wants to 'remove' the trim by cutting it out. I'm not even sure if that would work. I tend to doubt it. 

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3 hours ago, MatterEaterLad said:

I removed color touch from a PLOD X-Men #1 and regraded to Blue. That kind of thing happens all the time. Very little difference here. 

 

I understand completely. I wish you the best of luck...  

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I understand the want for a Blue label specially from a financial perspective as well as collecting perspective. I think we as a community automatically associate purple labels with Bad NO, noo's as we even call them PLOD but I think just classifying all comics in purple label category is wrong as not all restoration is equal or detrimental. I have PLOD that I want to change into a yellow label as it only has a tear sealed on the cover I haven't done this yet but to purposely destroy the comic to get a blue label I am not to sure what to think, this is a tough call, but you might also want to make sure that wasn't the only trim there was as someone else mentioned there might be micro trims that CGC caught and the OP didn't catch as the grader notes are not always all inclusive as someone mentioned.

BEST of luck with the decision, this is definitely a tough call.

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On 6/26/2019 at 6:35 PM, bc said:

And why would they want to do that?

The real motivation is

:flipbait:

"Let's damage the book some more to increase the value" seems crazy to me, but it is what it is.

:golfclap:

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On 6/26/2019 at 1:23 PM, Point Five said:

Have your cat or dog nibble the edge a bit.

 

Or tear the book in half, have both halves slabbed, and then sell them. :grin:

 

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On 6/26/2019 at 3:34 PM, Cliff R. said:

You're cutting off the nose to spite the face... think about it.  :preach:

Sell it unslabbed and include the label.  Don't sell it at a discount.

 

 

 

Seriously, if you're selling it, just set the price you want and sell it for that. I had a whole series of early Marvels (including AF #15) where the OO had covered the CCA seal with his own stamps . . .  what a freakin' shame that was.

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Oh joy, another thread without pictures, that should have pictures.

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On 6/26/2019 at 12:13 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

I have an AF15, CGC 1.5 PLOD.

The only restoration is a corner on the back cover that's been trimmed, like 1/2" long by 1/8" deep. 

Every time I look at this book I can't help but think that if that were a torn piece instead of a slice, it'd be a Blue label, and worth more.

As horrible as it is to say, I'm tempted to micro tear that edge to "unrestore" it. 

What would you do? (If you were going to sell it).

 

 

Some things you just do - and don't ask, don't talk about. You didn't set the rules for blue label/purple label at CGC. It's your book. Your own moral compass is the only one that matters here. So do or don't and asking is the only real mistake.  

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2 hours ago, MastrCntrlProgram said:

Oh joy, another thread without pictures, that should have pictures.

 

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On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 6:08 PM, Bomber-Bob said:

No argument but the current example is not color touch. For this example, the book is trimmed. The owner wants to 'remove' the trim by cutting it out. I'm not even sure if that would work. I tend to doubt it. 

Trimming it off seems to me to imply, "in a neat way". That would make it re-re-trimmed. Trimmed in production, trimmed in destruction, then retrimmed for more destruction. The trimmed area would have to be pulled off, as in pieces. Missing pieces, rathe than trimmed off. Probably a real ugly result.

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3 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

Trimming it off seems to me to imply, "in a neat way". That would make it re-re-trimmed. Trimmed in production, trimmed in destruction, then retrimmed for more destruction. The trimmed area would have to be pulled off, as in pieces. Missing pieces, rathe than trimmed off. Probably a real ugly result.

no uglier than any other torn off corner. Or folded corner that fell off. It's already a 1.5. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Tony S said:

no uglier than any other torn off corner. Or folded corner that fell off. It's already a 1.5. 

Will the value even change, in this low a grade? Aren't the price results just about par for either purple or blue label, even for the super-keys, in the 0.5 to 1.5 range on ebay? In this lower end of the grade range, doesn't eye-appeal, the best of the worst, so to speak, typically dictate which ones will sell for more, purple or blue label not the main consideration, but less defects being better than more defects?. If it's purple, with a trim, and a 1.5, if the book has better eye appeal than 90% of the blue label 1.0s available in the marketplace, I would think long and hard about deliberately impacting that eye appeal because in that case, IMO, a nice looking 1.5 purple may very well auction for more than an uglier 1.0 blue!

This might very well be a case of leaving well enough alone serving a higher price result.

Edited by James J Johnson

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My question and maybe the pros can chime in here wouldn't CGC still be able to detect the trimming as I am not a pro but no matter how much you tear it carefully unless you rip out the entire trimmed area wouldn't they still be able to see that it was trimmed unless you can match the edge wear to the rest of the book as it would look out of place, and if you tearing that much out or so without pics we cant really know I guess but would that maybe have a chance to drop the grade to a 0.5 or still get a noted trimmed 

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18 minutes ago, Krishosein said:

My question and maybe the pros can chime in here wouldn't CGC still be able to detect the trimming as I am not a pro but no matter how much you tear it carefully unless you rip out the entire trimmed area wouldn't they still be able to see that it was trimmed unless you can match the edge wear to the rest of the book as it would look out of place, and if you tearing that much out or so without pics we cant really know I guess but would that maybe have a chance to drop the grade to a 0.5 or still get a noted trimmed 

This is a question that can only be definitively answered by CGC. Probably the same folks that do the color-touch removal. To remove amateur color-touch that has bled on through to the other side, and can't be treated any other way, excising the paper with the ink is the only recourse = artificial wear. What's left from the scraping and excision is damage, and probably more damage than the book previously had. So your question should be addressed to the ones that excise amateur color-touch in the correct manner to garner the previously restored label book a blue unrestored label once that procedure is concluded.

Logically, they should have a method for trim removal that will eliminate the trim. Ask them.

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45 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Logically, they should have a method for trim removal that will eliminate the trim. Ask them.

Image result for tearing phone book gif

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34 minutes ago, bc said:

Image result for tearing phone book gif

Unless it's ripped in such a fashion that the condition somehow looks improved after being ripped in half. Then, that would be considered restoration! (tsk)

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