Forbes article 2 2

[Captain Canuck]

I don't know if there is any truth to this statement, but could this whole speculation market and everyone wanting their piece of the pie be decreasing interest in some Superheroes for future generations? As in, when I attended cons several years ago with my nephews, their eyes would lite up when they would get free sketches of their favourite characters from some artists and would drive their interest in said character.  In recent years, those free sketches are hard to come by or nonexistent. When they walk by a booth and they see $50+ for a sketch, it does more to disinterest them, then continue promote their interest in the genre. They love Spongebob, but wouldn't dare drop $30 for the signature of the voice actor who does Spongebob. I even offered to pay for them, but they didn't see the value in spending that type of money. Could this whole capitalization by everyone involved, i.e. artists, writers, cons, facilitators and so on, doing more to harm, than good to promote the industry to younger individuals? Nothing worse than overpriced sketches, charges for signatures, $5 comic books, super long lines to dissuade kids. I used to love meeting my favourite baseball players and getting free sigs on a ball, once they started charging big bucks, that's when my interest disappeared in buying items to get signed. Maybe there should be a 2 tier model, 1 price for adults and another for kids, to help get them into the hobby and maintain their interest. Personally, I am starting to lose interest in attending cons because of the long lines, cost of tickets and rising prices for a quick sketch or sig. I love CGC, but also love getting a non-verified sig on a current book I am reading. What maintained my interest was meeting and interacting with the artists and writers, which is becoming harder and harder to do. That connection at cons promoted my interest in their work. Now they have less and less time to interact with the general fan. Which is prompting me to lose interest and reconsider why I am collecting.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Captain Canuck

[batman_fan]

37 minutes ago, Captain Canuck said:

Went with a friend and his 6 year old son to a local theme park. They had Snoopy walking around, he looked at Snoopy and then turned to his dad and asked him where was the Paw Patrol characters? Which the park didn't have any of. He didn't really know who Snoopy was or care for him. When the strip ended, so did the fascination in Peanuts. Snoopy is popular in Japan, but not enough to continue to drive the demand and prices for Peanuts OA. The prices will eventually start to drop for the art. Can't see the next generation paying $20,000 for a Peanuts Sunday Strip.

If you can find a Sunday for $20k today, point me to it 

[John E.]

9 minutes ago, Captain Canuck said:

I don't know if there is any truth to this statement, but could this whole speculation market and everyone wanting their piece of the pie be decreasing interest in some Superheroes for future generations? As in, when I attended cons several years ago with my nephews, their eyes would lite up when they would get free sketches of their favourite characters from some artists and would drive their interest in said character.  In recent years, those free sketches are hard to come by or nonexistent. When they walk by a booth and they see $50+ for a sketch, it does more to disinterest them, then continue promote their interest in the genre. They love Spongebob, but wouldn't dare drop $30 for the signature of the voice actor who does Spongebob. I even offered to pay for them, but they didn't see the value in spending that type of money. Could this whole capitalization by everyone involved, i.e. artists, writers, cons, facilitators and so on, doing more to harm, than good to promote the industry to younger individuals? Nothing worse than overpriced sketches, charges for signatures, $5 comic books, super long lines to dissuade kids. I used to love meeting my favourite baseball players and getting free sigs on a ball, once they started charging big bucks, that's when my interest disappeared in buying items to get signed. Maybe there should be a 2 tier model, 1 price for adults and another for kids, to help get them into the hobby and maintain their interest. Personally, I am starting to lose interest in attending cons because of the long lines, cost of tickets and rising prices for a quick sketch or sig. I love CGC, but also love getting a non-verified sigs on a current book I am reading. Which is making me reconsider what I have and eventually offloading it, while the value is still there. I assume, the cost and prices to acquire new OA are causing others in the hobby to lose interest.

I 100% agree with this assessment. It reflects my current experience too. 

[Captain Canuck]

5 minutes ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

I 100% agree with this assessment. It reflects my current experience too. 

Flippers, facilitators, ebay, ... Have prompted prices to skyrocket. When an artist tells you that their sig or sketch is going for X much on eBay and want the same price to get their share of the pie, I get it, but does it do more harm than good to promote the industry. Something needs to change for the health of the industry.

[Pete Marino]

17 minutes ago, Captain Canuck said:

I don't know if there is any truth to this statement, but could this whole speculation market and everyone wanting their piece of the pie be decreasing interest in some Superheroes for future generations? As in, when I attended cons several years ago with my nephews, their eyes would lite up when they would get free sketches of their favourite characters from some artists and would drive their interest in said character.  In recent years, those free sketches are hard to come by or nonexistent. When they walk by a booth and they see $50+ for a sketch, it does more to disinterest them, then continue promote their interest in the genre. They love Spongebob, but wouldn't dare drop $30 for the signature of the voice actor who does Spongebob. I even offered to pay for them, but they didn't see the value in spending that type of money. Could this whole capitalization by everyone involved, i.e. artists, writers, cons, facilitators and so on, doing more to harm, than good to promote the industry to younger individuals? Nothing worse than overpriced sketches, charges for signatures, $5 comic books, super long lines to dissuade kids. I used to love meeting my favourite baseball players and getting free sigs on a ball, once they started charging big bucks, that's when my interest disappeared in buying items to get signed. Maybe there should be a 2 tier model, 1 price for adults and another for kids, to help get them into the hobby and maintain their interest. Personally, I am starting to lose interest in attending cons because of the long lines, cost of tickets and rising prices for a quick sketch or sig. I love CGC, but also love getting a non-verified sig on a current book I am reading. What maintained my interest was meeting and interacting with the artists and writers, which is becoming harder and harder to do. That connection at cons promoted my interest in their work. Now they have less and less time to interact with the general fan. Which is prompting me to lose interest and reconsider why I am collecting.

it's a real double-edged sword.  I think creators also feel burnt by giving away freebies then seeing them on ebay the next day.  Adam Hughes is a prime example of a guy that just got fed up with the flippers.

So, it might hurt the industry as a whole, but we know that 1 Blank-hole can ruin it for everyone (and pretty much has in comics)

[John E.]

14 minutes ago, Captain Canuck said:

Flippers, facilitators, ebay, ... Have prompted prices to skyrocket. When an artist tells you that their sig or sketch is going for X much on eBay and want the same price to get their share of the pie, I get it, but does it do more harm than good to promote the industry. Something needs to change for the health of the industry.

A week ago I witnessed a fan rip into Brett Breeding for charging for signatures and Brett tore into him too. You essentially summarized the discourse between the two in your post. 

[John E.]

10 minutes ago, Pete Marino said:

it's a real double-edged sword.  I think creators also feel burnt by giving away freebies then seeing them on ebay the next day.  Adam Hughes is a prime example of a guy that just got fed up with the flippers.

So, it might hurt the industry as a whole, but we know that 1 Blank-hole can ruin it for everyone (and pretty much has in comics)

I certainly don’t disagree here but the key word is “1 Blank-hole.” I recall going to major cons and seeing hundreds, at least, of books getting signed and then seeing 2-3 of them get flipped on the Bay. And now we all suffer for it. My underlying tone is that the flipping is over exaggerated. 

[Captain Canuck]

1 minute ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

A week ago I witnessed a fan rip into Brett Breeding for charging for signatures and Brett tore into him too. You essentially summarized the discourse between the two in your post. 

As mentioned previously a 2 tier system, but that will eventually will be abused as well. There needs to be something to get kids interested in the hobby, which may not help maintain the current prices of OA or keys, but at least the genre. Lower cost of current comics is an essential. 

[Captain Canuck]

When comics and OA were being purchased in the 60s or 70s was it for the love of the genre or for how much it will appreciate in value? Foster the love of the genre and characters and future interest will pick up. Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh! cards are popular because of the fun factor, cheap investment and potential to get a rare card for the price of a cheap one. Less push on value. Cheap entry point for all, which is what comics were. 

[exitmusicblue]

1 hour ago, Captain Canuck said:

When comics and OA were being purchased in the 60s or 70s was it for the love of the genre or for how much it will appreciate in value? Foster the love of the genre and characters and future interest will pick up. Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh! cards are popular because of the fun factor, cheap investment and potential to get a rare card for the price of a cheap one. Less push on value. Cheap entry point for all, which is what comics were. 

Pretty much the best point made all week, in m'wee opinion.

[Bronty]

It was for the love sure but I don’t think anyone was not wise to a potential appreciation angle even then.   The amounts and the degree were smaller but I suspect it was there then too.   Would be good to hear from an old hand like Mitch.   When he paid 1800 for Action 1, was there an element or thought of price appreciation ?   I bet there was.

certainly by the time I started in the mid to late 80s that element was firmly entrenched. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Bronty

[dichotomy]

2 hours ago, Pete Marino said:

it's a real double-edged sword.  I think creators also feel burnt by giving away freebies then seeing them on ebay the next day.  Adam Hughes is a prime example of a guy that just got fed up with the flippers.

So, it might hurt the industry as a whole, but we know that 1 Blank-hole can ruin it for everyone (and pretty much has in comics)

I’m relatively new - what happened with Adam Hughes? Also, I see a ton of Jae Lee stuff on eBay - does anyone know what the story is with that? 

[exitmusicblue]

12 minutes ago, dichotomy said:

I’m relatively new - what happened with Adam Hughes? Also, I see a ton of Jae Lee stuff on eBay - does anyone know what the story is with that? 

Looks like Jae's stuff on ebay is selling basically at-cost.

Really happy with the one commission he did for me.  Above and beyond the call of duty, and it remains the most popular commission on my CAF.  Even gave helpful pointers on a comic side project an artist friend of mine and I were working on.

[Bird]

16 minutes ago, dichotomy said:

I’m relatively new - what happened with Adam Hughes? Also, I see a ton of Jae Lee stuff on eBay - does anyone know what the story is with that? 

he got tired of doing drawings at cons for $100 and then $125 or so and seeing them go for $600-$1000 (or much more for the sexy sexy) on ebay so he stopping sketching at shows. Then he started sketching again but at a much higher price point and under certain conditions.

[exitmusicblue]

...woops, forgot about my Dell'Otto Venom, plus Artgerm Vampi.  Anyhow, good stuff.  Jae's the one I grew up with.  Glad he's still only in his 40s, the man started so young!

[Rick2you2]

35 minutes ago, Bronty said:

It was for the love sure but I don’t think anyone was not wise to a potential appreciation angle even then.   The amounts and the degree were smaller but I suspect it was there then too.   Would be good to hear from an old hand like Mitch.   When he paid 1800 for Action 1, was there an element or thought of price appreciation ?   I bet there was.

certainly by the time I started in the mid to late 80s that element was firmly entrenched. 

Not the case in the beginning of the 1980’s that I saw. But then, the hobby wasn’t organized as now, so maybe I missed it.

[dichotomy]

25 minutes ago, Bird said:

he got tired of doing drawings at cons for $100 and then $125 or so and seeing them go for $600-$1000 (or much more for the sexy sexy) on ebay so he stopping sketching at shows. Then he started sketching again but at a much higher price point and under certain conditions.

Ah thanks, that makes sense now with what I've seen and observed. So it's fair to say he was quite approachable and reasonable, but in response to the flippers the cost and opportunity became far more rare?

[dichotomy]

30 minutes ago, exitmusicblue said:

Looks like Jae's stuff on ebay is selling basically at-cost.

Really happy with the one commission he did for me.  Above and beyond the call of duty, and it remains the most popular commission on my CAF.  Even gave helpful pointers on a comic side project an artist friend of mine and I were working on.

I agree the cost - I'm just staggered at the amount if you look at sketch covers and 'simpler' commissions/sketches. I always wondered if he was churning out a bunch for an agent or if they are all simply flips. Definitely a great guy - one of my most favorite commissions is also from him and it is spectacular, even if it took a little longer than originally anticipated. And a really nice guy. 

[exitmusicblue]

2 hours ago, dichotomy said:

I agree the cost - I'm just staggered at the amount if you look at sketch covers and 'simpler' commissions/sketches. I always wondered if he was churning out a bunch for an agent or if they are all simply flips. Definitely a great guy - one of my most favorite commissions is also from him and it is spectacular, even if it took a little longer than originally anticipated. And a really nice guy. 

I'd lean towards agent.

[romitaman]

On 7/8/2019 at 10:20 AM, vodou said:

Oh...you mean the ol' cliff-dive?

I used to live on street named  "CLIFF DRIVE" from 1992-2003....does that mean anything? LOL

 

....about this thread.....

Around 2001 or so......A very very prominent art collector and myself had this exact discussion of when we should start selling our art collections.....

I told him  that in 2025 i planned to start selling over time parts of my collection slowly, and when he asked me why i chose that 2025 year...i told him (back in 2001) that guys my age would be 60 years old in 2025...... (and guys my age and maybe 5-8 years younger than myself)  we are the very last of the hard core guys who worked our asses off with paper routes and odd jobs as kids and biked or walked to the local deli or candy store to buy our comics and smell the pages and all that.

And we didn't have video games and all that...Comics really were a huge part of our childhood and because of our love of comics back then...and comics not really being bought much by kids anymore.....I felt that the art market would begin to falter after guys my age hit 60......(2025)

But i never took into account or could have known the impact  in 2001 of..........  "The MARVEL MOVIES!!!!!"

AND

Disney buying MARVEL......

This to me has changed everything........ And I believe the comic art market in general, slowing down, has been pushed back 10-15 years at the very least from my original thinking...as the MOVIES have brought a lot of new collectors into our hobby.

Speaking just on the "BUSINESS" side of comic art .......

Back in 2001-2003 or so..probably 10% of the art i sold left the USA....Now it is easily 1/3 of all art i sell leaves the USA for other countries... This "IS A BIG DEAL!!!!

And this is a huge reason why comic art sales have grown by leaps and bounds over the past 2 decades...... With the internet in full swing now..... and getting our art hobby seen by more and more people who didn't know it existed previously is a big reason for current growth...With the movies.

Just my 2 cents and take it however you choose...

Mike "ROMITAMAN"  Burkey

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by romitaman