Your Predictions Please
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1 hour ago, Will_K said:
2 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

It's Rosenberger/Colletta, and $300. I'm in the process of buying it.

Ugh.  Looks more like Mortimer, maybe if I saw the whole story.  In any case, I would not buy it.  But enjoy ir.

Hard to tell who the artist is, since the Colletta inks drown out the pencils like a bottle of Ragu poured over a plate of spaghetti.

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21 minutes ago, tth2 said:

I'd be more impressed if they had an Asian hero who wasn't a walking stereotype.

As an aside, for people who haven't read the series...Shang-Chi is only half-Chinese. :whatthe:  His mother was a (Caucasian) American (unless they ret-conned that out later on...)

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I always got the impression that the objections were to Fu Manchu more than Shang Chi himself (Fu Manchu is his father right ?)

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3 hours ago, Will_K said:

Ugh.  Looks more like Mortimer, maybe if I saw the whole story.  In any case, I would not buy it.  But enjoy ir.

One of the things I like about it is it’s very stiffness; it’s a time capsule of a period and style, along with the nutty dialog and old-fashioned clothing. It is not good art in the normal way we evaluate things. But, it is unintentionally funny and that’s why I think it is cool.

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Posted (edited)

Bloomberg: A Cautionary Tale of the World's Super Rich Blowing Millions on Art

"It’s not just that these are dollar amounts that still shock today; it’s that once Joseph Duveen died and tastes began to change, they remain high-water marks a century later..."

Edited by delekkerste

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3 hours ago, Bird said:

I always got the impression that the objections were to Fu Manchu more than Shang Chi himself (Fu Manchu is his father right ?)

The objections would be: Sax Rohmer...all day...long.

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46 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Joseph Duveen

Since it's come up, everybody would enjoy:

image.png.c371b22c3ff5face55037db922fac63a.png

image.thumb.png.bf65a49a99acee48ba7df405f92e76f2.png

 

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Good read. That last paragraph reinforces my belief. 

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10 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

(I)t’s a time capsule of a period and style, along with the nutty dialog and old-fashioned clothing. It is not good art in the normal way we evaluate things. But, it is unintentionally funny and that’s why I think it is cool.

I think it's a great pick-up, and for exactly those reasons.

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25 is sorta tough. I’m thinking we will either be coming out of or near the end of a period of real global unrest/strife so I’m not sure really how this stuff will be priced when compared to more pressing needs. 

 

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21 hours ago, delekkerste said:

As an aside, for people who haven't read the series...Shang-Chi is only half-Chinese. :whatthe:  His mother was a (Caucasian) American (unless they ret-conned that out later on...)

You know, I'd totally forgotten about that.

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On 7/9/2019 at 5:31 AM, vodou said:

Asia will be the undisputed de facto financial and cultural (let's not beat around the bush...religious too) center of world no later than 2035. (Sorry Rome, sorry Jerusalem). And for the next several hundred years. You want predictions for what's "hot" in fifteen, twenty, fifty years? What do Chinese, Indians, Koreans, Vietnamese, et al want? I really, really, really, want? I do not think it will be any Western/American comic art. Definitely not Captain America ( lol ). So, while all the buyers and disposable money will be "there" we'll still be trading our favorites among ourselves with less and less capital too, over time.

The one save might be the repatriation (that's already been going on for twenty years) of "lost" to The West Asian masterpieces completing to be followed by "taking" all "our" masterpieces too to flesh out their (side) trophy rooms. I liken this to the masters of the industrial revolution taking everything Old Master that wasn't nailed down out of Europe in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century. I think it's reasonable to expect that, but maybe not for another twenty years or more. Still plenty of Asian treasures to pull back in first...and true capitalism has yet to be fully embraced across the board (China especially but the class/caste system is still present in most of the other countries too).

I agree with this thought completely.  Is there anything like OA 20 years ago that you expect will appeal to the Chinese?  Do the Chinese have a collecting culture?  Is there no way of knowing other than buying already expensive antiquities from auction houses?  Thanks in advance for any response.

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11 hours ago, inovrmihd said:

I agree with this thought completely.  Is there anything like OA 20 years ago that you expect will appeal to the Chinese?  Do the Chinese have a collecting culture?  Is there no way of knowing other than buying already expensive antiquities from auction houses?  Thanks in advance for any response.

I think it will take far longer than people think for China to become the center of world affairs - bad demographics, malinvestment and debt on an unimaginable scale, following the boom - bust of the Gershenkron Growth Model to a T. 

Our hobby is so much more than just the 10,000 foot view of things that people see in a movie screen.  There are so many things about the stories and art and the MCU and DCU that takes years/decades of obsessive reading and appreciation to get like we do. And that is part of why I have long been skeptical of fine art and foreign riches making a big splash in the hobby.

Heck, I don't think it's unreasonable that even younger generations here are not going to get it like we do, much as I see guys in their 50s and 60s in this hobby know things that that 40-somethings like myself will not have picked up. 

Anyway, the Chinese absolutely have a collecting culture and you often see them in the mix for Western trophies/masterpieces, as well as their own historical art and artifacts. 

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15 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I think it will take far longer than people think for China to become the center of world affairs - bad demographics, malinvestment and debt on an unimaginable scale, following the boom - bust of the Gershenkron Growth Model to a T.

It will speed up when the old guys clinging to old models (top down communism) pass away or are taken out. Otherwise, China is wisely already internalizing their supply/demand economy ala USA (as opposed to dependent on the wealth of others exporter to the world: Germany). And of course when I reference "ASIA", well that's hardly just China ;)

At least we agree that  vacuuming up all our overpriced by a factor of 4-5 Bronze Age Marvel covers isn't the end goal lol

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On 7/9/2019 at 8:31 AM, vodou said:

Asia will be the undisputed de facto financial and cultural (let's not beat around the bush...religious too) center of world no later than 2035. (Sorry Rome, sorry Jerusalem). And for the next several hundred years. You want predictions for what's "hot" in fifteen, twenty, fifty years? What do Chinese, Indians, Koreans, Vietnamese, et al want? I really, really, really, want? I do not think it will be any Western/American comic art. Definitely not Captain America ( lol ). So, while all the buyers and disposable money will be "there" we'll still be trading our favorites among ourselves with less and less capital too, over time.

The one save might be the repatriation (that's already been going on for twenty years) of "lost" to The West Asian masterpieces completing to be followed by "taking" all "our" masterpieces too to flesh out their (side) trophy rooms. I liken this to the masters of the industrial revolution taking everything Old Master that wasn't nailed down out of Europe in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century. I think it's reasonable to expect that, but maybe not for another twenty years or more. Still plenty of Asian treasures to pull back in first...and true capitalism has yet to be fully embraced across the board (China especially but the class/caste system is still present in most of the other countries too).

China will be in a state of near if not actual civil war in 20 years. India will have such disparity of wealth it will be bogged down as it tries to transform into a welfare state to avoid similar issues. Those are the two main engines of Asia, and they are due for some major rebuilds.

 

People sometimes don’t seem to respect the decades of growth through anger and disagreement the US has gone though, something that hasn’t happened much outside of the western world. You grow by allowing people personal power and freedom to define themselves and create their own independent path. China’s government and India’s culture/disparity of wealth are going to be toxic to that process of them becoming true superpowers.

 

China is a powder keg, held together with debt and bullets. People act as if they are still this ancient culture with thousands of years of built upon tradition and planning. They are really only about 70 years old considering they executed/tortured out the leaders of the old traditional China in the 60’s as they were “reborn”. And that’s not even factoring in that on many levels China is made up of multiple smaller countries held together by force.

 

As for India, 70 percent of their population don’t live in houses with toilets/functional bathrooms...and those affected are very aware of how insanely unfair that is and that the government has no way to fix that in the near future. Imagine how many other areas of growth as a society they are deficient in if they can’t even give folks working toilet access?

I believe we are headed for some really...REALLY...rough times ahead who know what’s gonna come out of the drama.

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39 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

China will be in a state of near if not actual civil war in 20 years. India will have such disparity of wealth it will be bogged down as it tries to transform into a welfare state to avoid similar issues. Those are the two main engines of Asia, and they are due for some major rebuilds.

 

People sometimes don’t seem to respect the decades of growth through anger and disagreement the US has gone though, something that hasn’t happened much outside of the western world. You grow by allowing people personal power and freedom to define themselves and create their own independent path. China’s government and India’s culture/disparity of wealth are going to be toxic to that process of them becoming true superpowers.

 

China is a powder keg, held together with debt and bullets. People act as if they are still this ancient culture with thousands of years of built upon tradition and planning. They are really only about 70 years old considering they executed/tortured out the leaders of the old traditional China in the 60’s as they were “reborn”. And that’s not even factoring in that on many levels China is made up of multiple smaller countries held together by force.

 

As for India, 70 percent of their population don’t live in houses with toilets/functional bathrooms...and those affected are very aware of how insanely unfair that is and that the government has no way to fix that in the near future. Imagine how many other areas of growth as a society they are deficient in if they can’t even give folks working toilet access?

I believe we are headed for some really...REALLY...rough times ahead who know what’s gonna come out of the drama.

Don’t think China is a powder keg, but it will definitely change. The public’s desire for basic freedoms was bought off by the huge economic gains the people made, like eating meat more than once a week and being able for the average person to buy a bike. I think you are more likely to see change the same way that Britain went from a functional monarchy under George III to a constitutional one in the 1800’s after Waterloo (and “Peterloo” for you Brit’s). 

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8 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

Don’t think China is a powder keg, but it will definitely change. The public’s desire for basic freedoms was bought off by the huge economic gains the people made, like eating meat more than once a week and being able for the average person to buy a bike. I think you are more likely to see change the same way that Britain went from a functional monarchy under George III to a constitutional one in the 1800’s after Waterloo (and “Peterloo” for you Brit’s). 

Britain’s population at the time was living under expected conditions, it was traction around the world to live under a monarchy at that time. China is living under a “fear of death” single party dictatorship where the general population knows there are much better options and have been for centuries, but they are denied it. 

If anything, don’t think England early 19th century, think France late 18th.

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All it takes is a little capitalism, which is already there. That becomes a lot, which is sooner rather than later. But present national borders (worldwide) should not be taken for granted. Many will be re-drawn.

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1 hour ago, zhamlau said:

As for India, 70 percent of their population don’t live in houses with toilets/functional bathrooms...and those affected are very aware of how insanely unfair that is and that the government has no way to fix that in the near future. Imagine how many other areas of growth as a society they are deficient in if they can’t even give folks working toilet access?

So, what you're telling me is that they'll be more interested in John Buscema Conan over BWS Conan? 

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2 hours ago, delekkerste said:

So, what you're telling me is that they'll be more interested in John Buscema Conan over BWS Conan? 

Clearly BWS, are you even paying attention to my screed!?

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