CGC and eBay Partner on Expert Review Service 3 3

[Timely]

What will CGC do when a likely 8.0-10 grade estimate is given, the buyer gets it and sends it in to be graded and the centerfold is missing?

Grading from a scan is never a good idea.

[Lazyboy]

3 hours ago, Broke as a Joke said:

I honestly can't see anyone with a brain using this.  

If you want to make money, you don't target people with brains.

[N e r V]

Eh, it’s $5.00 or $10.00 for some advice before buying. I can see where it could save someone a headache on a purchase. People get advice here on such things so you’re paying someone who actually gets paid being a grader with a (hopefully) more qualified second opinion than your average collector. 

The asking price is a cup or two of coffee at Starbucks so it’s not all that bad...

Edited July 12, 2019 by N e r V

[N e r V]

It might be fun on a more challenging eBay listing to ask posters here for opinions then try the service to see the difference. In the PGM book section opinions can vary widely from each other and CGC.

[comicwiz]

[drotto]

8 hours ago, Timely said:

What will CGC do when a likely 8.0-10 grade estimate is given, the buyer gets it and sends it in to be graded and the centerfold is missing?

Grading from a scan is never a good idea.

Thus the repeated use of likely. That word makes the assessment non binding if damage or defects are not shown or clear in the photos provided.  CGC will do nothing, point to the likely and say the issue was not visible.

 Sorry.

[Aweandlorder]

If the "ask cgc" appears at every comic listing on eBay, regardless of what it does and how efficient it is, it is probably the best advertising they could ever have. Congrats guys. You absolutely own the market now 

 

[Brittany M.]

16 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

quality post @Brittany M. Just food for thought?

Thank you for the feedback. CGC Expert Review is designed to give a prospective buyer a preliminary opinion that will help them to make a more informed buying decision. We do not think that it would be possible to give a more precise opinion from the images typically seen in an eBay listing. In consultation with eBay we decided on grade ranges that we felt would convey helpful information to the consumer without implying the sort of precision that comes from CGC’s full, in-person certification services. We also wanted to keep this service simple so that it was easy-to-understand and affordable for collectors of all experience levels.

[Brittany M.]

16 hours ago, wiparker824 said:

So, if a CGC grader looks at a book they believe will be graded at an 8.0 how exactly are they going to label it? 8.0-10.0 or 6.0-8.0? Because I'd imagine if it's given the bucket of 8.0-10.0 it will attract a higher price from buyer's using this service... 

Which leads to the obvious point which is that it'd be a lot better if these ranges weren't set buckets, but dynamic. So, you could see a listing that was 7.0 - 9.0 and another listing that was 8.0-10.0, and another listing that was 6.5-8.5, etc. It still allows CGC the same margin for error without having these fixed cutoff points. 

I wish the ranges were tighter in general but at the very least I'd hope they aren't fixed as advertised. Also seems like this would be in CGC's best interest as well, since they now wouldn't have to make tight calls when a book is on one of the cutoff points. Just my 2 cents.

 

Thank you for the feedback. CGC Expert Review is designed to give a prospective buyer a preliminary opinion that will help them to make a more informed buying decision. We do not think that it would be possible to give a more precise opinion from the images typically seen in an eBay listing. In consultation with eBay we decided on grade ranges that we felt would convey helpful information to the consumer without implying the sort of precision that comes from CGC’s full, in-person certification services. We also wanted to keep this service simple so that it was easy-to-understand and affordable for collectors of all experience levels.

 

[Dick Pontoon]

8 hours ago, N e r V said:

Eh, it’s $5.00 or $10.00 for some advice before buying. I can see where it could save someone a headache on a purchase. People get advice here on such things so you’re paying someone who actually gets paid being a grader with a (hopefully) more qualified second opinion than your average collector. 

The asking price is a cup or two of coffee at Starbucks so it’s not all that bad...

Yes! Exactly!

I’m not surprised everyone is making a fuss, but c’mon guys! This is one step removed from the "Hey buddy, can you spare a grade?"  Forum.

And for many folks here, yes, this service would be stupid and worthless. But we are a tiny niche of the collecting world. There’s countless people buying comics who don’t know how to grade. Look at all the new guys who turn up here asking for opinions on severely overgraded books they’ve purchased or are looking at on ebay. 
 

[Krismusic]

10 hours ago, Bighaley21 said:

I was wondering this myself. Shouldn't the grade ranges be something like 6.0-7.5 and 8.0-10? I foresee the overlapping causing issues for buyers on certain books in the grey areas 6.0 8.0 etc.. definitely a cash grab but it could be useful to sellers when selling certain raw books on eBay.

I am guessing here but I suspect that they will be going with the average in that range if the grader feels its a 8.0 chance are it could be a 7.5 or a 8.5 when fully inspected at grading so they wouldn't be using the 8-10 tier but put it in the 6-8 tier instead as it could fall in those ranges as they obviously will account for unforeseen damage not seen in the pic or interior pages etc.. so if you guy it and it comes at 9.0 you will be happy if it comes back 7.0 you wont be upset as your under the likely 6-8 category so its a win both ways with their grading tiers. 

I think this might not really affect sellers as when grading most Raw's on Ebay the experienced person who has been burned before would always take the sellers grading with a grain of salt unless they have experience with that seller but hey we can all be off on our grading etc.. but most buyers usually I think generally take at least 1 point grade give or take compared to the seller stated estimated grade. 

[Krismusic]

16 minutes ago, Pontoon said:

Yes! Exactly!

I’m not surprised everyone is making a fuss, but c’mon guys! This is one step removed from the "Hey buddy, can you spare a grade?"  Forum.

And for many folks here, yes, this service would be stupid and worthless. But we are a tiny niche of the collecting world. There’s countless people buying comics who don’t know how to grade. Look at all the new guys who turn up here asking for opinions on severely overgraded books they’ve purchased or are looking at on ebay. 
 

I agree its to help the new people and even maybe help the novice guys make sure they are still on their game point.. I mean grading point.

[The Lions Den]

I would guess that it will not only boost revenue for both CGC and eBay, it should eventually lead to more sellers having their books slabbed in order to avoid any conflicts. And since this service is provided as an option, if you don't think you need it, don't buy it. 

Reputable sellers shouldn't suffer, because the books they're selling have either already been slabbed or thoroughly examined. If for some reason they haven't been thoroughly examined, it will undoubtedly put pressure on them to make sure the books they're selling are complete, accurately graded, and show no obvious signs of restoration.

The only ones who may ultimately suffer (if you can call it that) are the shady sellers that are trying to pass off their beat-up garbage to unsuspecting buyers. Well, it looks to me like there's a new sheriff in town... 

[newshane]

1 hour ago, Brittany M. said:

Thank you for the feedback. CGC Expert Review is designed to give a prospective buyer a preliminary opinion that will help them to make a more informed buying decision. We do not think that it would be possible to give a more precise opinion from the images typically seen in an eBay listing. In consultation with eBay we decided on grade ranges that we felt would convey helpful information to the consumer without implying the sort of precision that comes from CGC’s full, in-person certification services. We also wanted to keep this service simple so that it was easy-to-understand and affordable for collectors of all experience levels.

Have you guys ever thought about using the boards as a focus group BEFORE changing policies or offering services? Perhaps you don't want to show your hand to the competition by presenting your ideas before the fact, but it might save a bit of embarrassment or rage. 

I love the CGC, but I see this service as an embarrassment to the hobby. 

 

[Krismusic]

25 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

I would guess that it will not only boost revenue for both CGC and eBay, it should eventually lead to more sellers having their books slabbed in order to avoid any conflicts. And since this service is provided as an option, if you don't think you need it, don't buy it. 

Reputable sellers shouldn't suffer, because the books they're selling have either already been slabbed or thoroughly examined. If for some reason they haven't been thoroughly examined, it will undoubtedly put pressure on them to make sure the books they're selling are complete, accurately graded, and show no obvious signs of restoration.

The only ones who may ultimately suffer (if you can call it that) are the shady sellers that are trying to pass off their beat-up garbage to unsuspecting buyers. Well, it looks to me like there's a new sheriff in town... 

which is a good thing and I agree with what you have said.

[wiparker824]

1 hour ago, Brittany M. said:

In consultation with eBay we decided on grade ranges that we felt would convey helpful information to the consumer without implying the sort of precision that comes from CGC’s full, in-person certification services. We also wanted to keep this service simple so that it was easy-to-understand and affordable for collectors of all experience levels.

Okay, but I guess my main point was why have specific buckets at all? You can still give grades of the same ranges, but without forcing tough decisions when a book falls on the cutoff point. 7.0-9.0 doesn't imply any more precision than 8.0-10.0, but if a book is a likely 8.0, well then 7.0-9.0 is a much safer range for CGC and buyers of the service. So why limit yourselves to those specific buckets? Just making things more difficult on yourselves unnecessarily. 

As far as keeping it easy to understand, I think people can understand 7.0-9.0 just as well as they can 8.0-10.0. But if you're going to stick to those buckets, what exactly do you plan to give a book when it falls on the cutoff, like when a CGC rep looks at a book online that they feel will most likely grade at an 8.0? Is it going to be 8.0-10.0 or 6.0-8.0? 

Edited July 12, 2019 by wiparker824

[Krismusic]

9 minutes ago, newshane said:

Have you guys ever thought about using the boards as a focus group BEFORE changing policies or offering services? Perhaps you don't want to show your hand to the competition by presenting your ideas before the fact, but it might save a bit of embarrassment or rage. 

I love the CGC, but I see this service as an embarrassment to the hobby. 

 

may I ask why is that?

I see it as a benefit to buyers and adds more protection for buyers. As established sellers on Ebay generally have established customers and if someone new wants to buy from a established seller or heck even a newbie who might be selling off a friend or family members collection this tool gives them the opportunity to build trust and give that buyer a tool to better value or trust that seller opinion of the book. As if I am buying off someone new I would use that service and compare what a more experienced expert would say compared to a collector and see if there is any difference in what they are averaging the grade or possible label or authenticity etc...to be, I would then have more confidence in knowing this seller is reputable and within the ballpark. 

[Krismusic]

5 minutes ago, wiparker824 said:

Okay, but I guess my main point was why have specific buckets at all? You can still give grades of the same ranges, but without forcing tough decisions when a book falls on the cutoff point. 7.0-9.0 doesn't imply any more precision than 8.0-10.0. So why limit yourselves to those specific buckets? Just making things more difficult on yourselves unnecessarily. 

As far as keeping it easy to understand, I think people can understand 7.0-9.0 just as well as they can 8.0-10.0. But if you're going to stick to those buckets, what exactly do you plan to give a book when it falls on the cutoff, like when a CGC rep looks at a book online that they feel will most likely grade at an 8.0? Is it going to be 8.0-10.0 or 6.0-8.0? 

I talked about this as a guess earlier on as they will be using guestimate so which ever side the comic was more leaning to based on probably a whole sheet full or criteria of what could be missing age of book what might not be easily seen in the picture etc.. and put it in the range that it will more of less lean to. I am assuming this wont be very helpful to modern comics I think this would be more helpful to older books as the ranges can vary specially with specific defects when most of us have to guess what CGC would bump down the grade on certain defects like writing on cover or pink highlighter on a ASM 101; or a nice looking 8.0 cover with a large missing triangle out of back cover. In the PGM the ranges varied quite a bit on those ones as we don't know what CGC would say, but now you can kind of get a weigh in on that if it was on E bay. 

[The Lions Den]

1 hour ago, Brittany M. said:

 

Thank you for the feedback. CGC Expert Review is designed to give a prospective buyer a preliminary opinion that will help them to make a more informed buying decision. We do not think that it would be possible to give a more precise opinion from the images typically seen in an eBay listing. In consultation with eBay we decided on grade ranges that we felt would convey helpful information to the consumer without implying the sort of precision that comes from CGC’s full, in-person certification services. We also wanted to keep this service simple so that it was easy-to-understand and affordable for collectors of all experience levels.

 

Thank you Brittany!  

[newshane]

7 minutes ago, Krishosein said:

may I ask why is that?

 

1. It cheapens the whole process of grading. You simply CANNOT evaluate a book from a scan. Why would the CGC even try? 

2. It insults my own ability to evaluate a book before I sell or buy it. If I can't reasonably tell if a book falls somewhere within the VF to Gem Mint range I should probably get my glasses checked or find a new hobby. 

3. Bluntly - it's a ripoff that makes the CGC come across as money-hungry, opportunistic capitalists. I see no value in the service unless you're a hopeless newb with money to burn. 

4. If I buy a book and disagree, I can usually return it - hopefully through the seller's policy, but surely through eBay's policy. So why do I need the CGC's service? 

5. As mentioned previously, what if a centerfold is missing? Interior piece torn? Restorations that wouldn't show in a scan? Married covers? The new service can't detect these flaws. Again, you can't grade by looking at the scans. What if I buy an "online evaluated" book, and I run into these problems? Will CGC refund the money for evaluating the scan? 

6. The grading ranges are far too broad to be useful at ANY grade point. Only the very worst graders and the most clueless people in the hobby would be off more than 2 points. 

There is already a perception that 3rd party grading services are rip-off scams...and this perpetuates that notion. It's just not a good look in my opinion. I see it as the equivalent of McDonalds charging you extra for ice cubes and straws.