POLL - Should GEEzusWalks be removed from the Probation List over the objection of the nominator, Columbia Comics? 4 4

[F For Fake]

17 minutes ago, Kon_Jelly said:

So the money was refunded but the gist is that people aren't satisfied with the story? And now @GEEzusWalks won't ever be able to sell on the boards again unless @Columbia Comics has a change of heart?

That doesn't sound like probation.

Seller lists book. Book is claimed. Seller claims book is lost, refunds money, deletes pics from the thread, then claims pics and all other evidence of the book were deleted to free up space on their hard drive. It's...fishy. Not Hall of Shame/ban worthy, but worth making note of all the same, right?

There was an opportunity given for the seller to get off the list, if they could provide pics of the slab that were used in the listing, in the event that the book should ever show up for sale again somewhere else. Seller said that they'd already deleted the pics to make room on their hard drive, or whatever. So, they were given an out from the PL, and a pretty simple one at that, but of course could not comply. So on the list they stayed. 

Probation list isn't the same as Hall of Shame. The seller can continue to do business, if anyone wants to buy from them. And I'm sure some folks will, because, you know, cool books. But PL is a warning to potential buyers that this seller is either 1. a liar or 2. capable of losing a book less than a day after listing it for sale, then lacking the foresight to hang onto the evidence while the transaction is being disputed. Neither is great. I've lost books before, it happens. But the chain of events following the transaction, and the seller's responses, don't paint a picture of honesty.

[Senormac]

Nicely recapped "FFF".  

[Gaard]

2 hours ago, Kon_Jelly said:

And now @GEEzusWalks won't ever be able to sell on the boards again unless @Columbia Comics has a change of heart?

 

From what I understand, this isn't correct. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

TBH, Given his responses (or lack thereof), I don't think GEEzusWalks gives a hoot one way or the other.

[JollyComics]

GeezusWalks bought my books several times. I don't see there is any problem with the board member.

How long will this board member be on Probation List?  6 months?  One year?   How recent was the member put on the list?

[seanfingh]

2 hours ago, F For Fake said:

Seller lists book. Book is claimed. Seller claims book is lost, refunds money, deletes pics from the thread, then claims pics and all other evidence of the book were deleted to free up space on their hard drive. It's...fishy. Not Hall of Shame/ban worthy, but worth making note of all the same, right?

There was an opportunity given for the seller to get off the list, if they could provide pics of the slab that were used in the listing, in the event that the book should ever show up for sale again somewhere else. Seller said that they'd already deleted the pics to make room on their hard drive, or whatever. So, they were given an out from the PL, and a pretty simple one at that, but of course could not comply. So on the list they stayed. 

Probation list isn't the same as Hall of Shame. The seller can continue to do business, if anyone wants to buy from them. And I'm sure some folks will, because, you know, cool books. But PL is a warning to potential buyers that this seller is either 1. a liar or 2. capable of losing a book less than a day after listing it for sale, then lacking the foresight to hang onto the evidence while the transaction is being disputed. Neither is great. I've lost books before, it happens. But the chain of events following the transaction, and the seller's responses, don't paint a picture of honesty.

A+ analysis right there.

[Loki]

20 minutes ago, JollyComics said:

GeezusWalks bought my books several times. I don't see there is any problem with the board member.

How long will this board member be on Probation List?  6 months?  One year?   How recent was the member put on the list?

Once on the list, the only way off is if the offended party agrees to remove them.  So, basically on the list forever as it currently stands.

[Bird]

 Again it’s important to note that the PL is just informational it doesn’t stop him from doing anything 

 I also agree that it appears he doesn’t care at all or should I say they don’t care at all 

[thehumantorch]

57 minutes ago, Bird said:

 Again it’s important to note that the PL is just informational it doesn’t stop him from doing anything 

 I also agree that it appears he doesn’t care at all or should I say they don’t care at all 

The seller under-priced his book by a couple hundred dollars and he values that more than his reputation here.  Clearly he doesn't care and clearly he's not someone I could ever trust.

[Kon_Jelly]

3 hours ago, F For Fake said:

Seller lists book. Book is claimed. Seller claims book is lost, refunds money, deletes pics from the thread, then claims pics and all other evidence of the book were deleted to free up space on their hard drive. It's...fishy. Not Hall of Shame/ban worthy, but worth making note of all the same, right?

There was an opportunity given for the seller to get off the list, if they could provide pics of the slab that were used in the listing, in the event that the book should ever show up for sale again somewhere else. Seller said that they'd already deleted the pics to make room on their hard drive, or whatever. So, they were given an out from the PL, and a pretty simple one at that, but of course could not comply. So on the list they stayed. 

 Probation list isn't the same as Hall of Shame. The seller can continue to do business, if anyone wants to buy from them. And I'm sure some folks will, because, you know, cool books. But PL is a warning to potential buyers that this seller is either 1. a liar or 2. capable of losing a book less than a day after listing it for sale, then lacking the foresight to hang onto the evidence while the transaction is being disputed. Neither is great. I've lost books before, it happens. But the chain of events following the transaction, and the seller's responses, don't paint a picture of honesty.

While that may be true, there is no concrete proof that the seller was being dishonest. And if they really did lose the book and delete the pictures, how are they supposed to provide pictures to get them off the PL? I agree that something seems off, but in the case that they are telling the truth they are left with literally no recourse. And let's be honest here - this is essentially a ban. How many sales threads are started by PL members? And how many threads by other members state by default that they won't sell to users on the PL? 

Did the seller do something wrong? I don't know, maybe they did. Do they deserve to be put on a list that for all intents and purposes prevents them from ever conducting business on the forums? That seems a bit extreme to me.

[Wipple]

4 minutes ago, thehumantorch said:

The seller under-priced his book by a couple hundred dollars and he values that more than his reputation here.  Clearly he doesn't care and clearly he's not someone I could ever trust.

Columbia should have claimed the book and let the seller know it was clearly under-priced.  He could have stated that in a PM or with the .  Geezus at that point could have owned the mistake or thanked Columbia for the heads up. I know this place as a community not a cutthroat war zone. Geezus made some fatal community mistakes and will never have the respect of the boards again. At this point the PL is meaningless as he is toast.

[lizards2]

13 hours ago, kav said:

 

 

[newshane]

At this point, 22 boardies think that it is acceptable for someone to back out of a deal by "losing" a book. 

Unbelievable. 

We're on our way to setting quite the precedent. 

Remember that the seller has already been given several, simple solutions in regards to removing himself from the PL. He's failed on every occasion. 

Praise GEEzus. 

[exitmusicblue]

I'd wager that anyone who voted "yes" hasn't had this happen to him/her.

At least on these boards, there's recourse in the form of these lists.  Had it been on CAF, not a thing that can be done.

Don't list stuff you can't sell.

[thunsicker]

37 minutes ago, newshane said:

At this point, 22 boardies think that it is acceptable for someone to back out of a deal by "losing" a book. 

Unbelievable. 

We're on our way to setting quite the precedent. 

Remember that the seller has already been given several, simple solutions in regards to removing himself from the PL. He's failed on every occasion. 

Praise GEEzus. 

 

9 minutes ago, exitmusicblue said:

I'd wager that anyone who voted "yes" hasn't had this happen to him/her.

At least on these boards, there's recourse in the form of these lists.  Had it been on CAF, not a thing that can be done.

Don't list stuff you can't sell.

I was a yes vote.  If Columbia Comics wanted to nominate him for the HoS I might vote to put him in (not sure I haven't really read up on the whole story), but I've alway thought that the Probation List should be used for monetary torts.  People not shipping books and not refunding.  People not paying for books.  Look, I like Brock and have no idea who GEEzusWalks is, but I don't think that's how the PL should be used.  Bad actors belong on the HoS, bad transactions which can be taken care of with a monetary or return belong on the PL.

[newshane]

4 minutes ago, thunsicker said:

 

(not sure I haven't really read up on the whole story)

So you voted without reading the entire story? 

The devil is in the details. 

[thunsicker]

Just now, newshane said:

So you voted without reading the entire story? 

The devil is in the details. 

I only had to read to where Brock was asking for a non-monetary tort to see that it's not something that I think belongs on the PL.

[F For Fake]

49 minutes ago, Kon_Jelly said:

While that may be true, there is no concrete proof that the seller was being dishonest. And if they really did lose the book and delete the pictures, how are they supposed to provide pictures to get them off the PL? I agree that something seems off, but in the case that they are telling the truth they are left with literally no recourse. And let's be honest here - this is essentially a ban. How many sales threads are started by PL members? And how many threads by other members state by default that they won't sell to users on the PL? 

Did the seller do something wrong? I don't know, maybe they did. Do they deserve to be put on a list that for all intents and purposes prevents them from ever conducting business on the forums? That seems a bit extreme to me.

I might be more inclined to agree with you if @GEEzusWalks was themselves raising this stink. As it stands, it's not like the seller is lobbying to be removed. There are people arguing on his behalf, but he is strangely quiet. Personally, that feels like "Ok, I'm caught, let's just make this go away." If they truly felt wronged, I'm sure they'd be in here lobbying along with you. I suppose it's true that a bad precedent could be set either way. As it stands, I'm inclined to side with the Probation Worthy side. If a seller wants to pull shenanigans, there are plenty of places to do so. But the boards have been heavy policed, and therefore honest, as long as I have been here. If we're on a slippery slope, I'd prefer it be on the side of being overly cautious.

[ExNihilo]

5 hours ago, F For Fake said:

There was an opportunity given for the seller to get off the list, if they could provide pics of the slab that were used in the listing, in the event that the book should ever show up for sale again somewhere else. Seller said that they'd already deleted the pics to make room on their hard drive, or whatever. So, they were given an out from the PL, and a pretty simple one at that, but of course could not comply. So on the list they stayed.

So my initial reaction to this is one of understanding.  I have certainly taken pictures to be used for a listing and then promptly deleted them from my computer because they're no longer necessary.  I can also understand removing pictures from the board because once you believe an item to be sold, you might as well remove the photos so anyone quickly scrolling through your sales thread will know the item is gone.

5 hours ago, F For Fake said:

Probation list isn't the same as Hall of Shame. The seller can continue to do business, if anyone wants to buy from them. And I'm sure some folks will, because, you know, cool books. But PL is a warning to potential buyers that this seller is either 1. a liar or 2. capable of losing a book less than a day after listing it for sale, then lacking the foresight to hang onto the evidence while the transaction is being disputed.

This is where my decision comes from though.  Now, normally I would say that since a refund was issued and the buyer made whole, that should be the end of it.  But is there any difference in having a post in the PL forum vs actually being on the list itself?  I think for some, even having a thread in the forum would serve as a red flag, even if the person was ultimately found of no wrongdoing.  The Probation List itself is just an easy reminder of who is and isn't on there (because let's face it, the CGC Forum search function is terrible).  Since boardies are still free to make a judgement call on who they will or won't do business with, then their addition to the PL seems warranted given what little we are able to piece together.

I dunno, I don't do a whole lot of private transactions here, but just my .

Edited July 16, 2019 by ExNihilo

[newshane]

10 minutes ago, thunsicker said:

I only had to read to where Brock was asking for a non-monetary tort to see that it's not something that I think belongs on the PL.

I think the prejudice against Brock is a problem here. 

I suggest that you at least read the entire thread before placing a vote. 

This is a unique, complicated decision that needs to be carefully considered. It's not a popularity poll for Brock. 

[thunsicker]

2 minutes ago, newshane said:

I think the prejudice against Brock is a problem here. 

I suggest that you at least read the entire thread before placing a vote. 

This is a unique, complicated decision that needs to be carefully considered. It's not a popularity poll for Brock. 

If I did it on prejudice it would be for Brock.  As I mentioned before I know Brock and like him.  I've bought books from him.  I have no idea who JEEzusWalks is.  It has nothing to do with my feelings for either of the people involved.  It has to do with my feelings of what the respective role of the PL and the HoS are.