SDCC 2019 - Original Art pics
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1 hour ago, Bronty said:

Grapeape:   I think that’s just a sign of dealers having less and less inventory that they bought when they had access to the artists or while prices were still cheap.   As more and more of their inventory is bought at FMV at auction, double+ FMV asks become more and more the norm.  Not to say that anyone will pay that necessarily but they are going to be more choosy about which sales they take because they have more sunk into it.    When they say “I’ll happily take it home” what they are saying is “I’d rather take it home than get no return. I’ll wait for the perfect buyer.”

One other aspect to consider that is peculiar to OA is that OA inventory takes really little space compared to fine art.  10 portfolios can easily carry 2-5M USD worth of inventory and you can store them behind your sofa.  Also easy to carry around from one show to the next.  That might be a factor in incentivising a highly speculative pricing strategy, of course subject to the financial sustainability of the strategy.  But, then again, many (all?) dealers are also collectors...

 

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Comic art, by definition, being a luxury versus commodity marketplace means that the high margin:low volume sales model must prevail. As Bronty correctly states, the supply of art bought (or acquired as consignment) with a 1990s and earlier cost basis is diminishing very rapidly now. Why? Because even the deepest black hole collections are now being plumbed, or at least are preparing to be, at HA, CLink, and Metropolis (ComicConnect). Oh, and Hake's (lol). This means that what persisted for years, so-called 'fair' pricing and reasonable expected growth over time, was actually a market operating in exception to the sales model. Or more accurately, a few of us (but ever more and more over time) were taking advantage of information arbitrage as the hobby was expanding into the online age. Some of us (me) saw that arbitrage disappearing as early as late oughts and backed away from ongoing speculation. The margins (reward) just weren't there anymore to justify taking on new risk. Notably this is also when the bigger names in the professional dealer community started taking more consignments on, dealing less out their own wholly-owned inventory, and even stepped up consigning to auction themselves (some using certain unsavory methods to make sure nothing sold too cheap though). Some older and new entrants to professional dealing also entered the 'repping' end of things, which is just taking on consignments from artists (primary sales at 'zero cost basis' floor) instead of other collectors (non-primary with cost basis floor).

We're now at least a decade into this. And the overall situation is visibly threadbare. I know some of you still seem to flip things profitably in comic art. I'm happy for you, but not with my money ;)

Dealing luxury really does result in high margins and low volume, as a rule. And, if you're a very active buyer that insists on holding out for 'that one right guy' most of the time: inventory backlog on a climbing curve. Like Anthony's is. If he dropped his prices in half, I think half his inventory would sell in three months. But I don't think he can do that, cover his cost basis and his operating expenses and put enough in his pocket at the end to make it all worth it. That's the rub. Again, not for me, and not for over a decade.

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On 7/23/2019 at 6:43 AM, AnkurJ said:

I had a dealer agree to a price on a piece at the Torpedo show (via online messaging), but wanted cash. When my friend went to pick it up for me, the price went from the agreed $200 to $500.... lol

But this is ok since this is expected behavior from dealers.

No, it's not okay.

If a dealer did that to me, I'd first take him to small claims court and then I'd post his name all over the internet.

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On 7/23/2019 at 2:59 PM, pinupcartooncollector said:

Agreed.  Of all the A-list actors that have been featured in the Marvel films, she was by far the weakest.

 

Halle Berry.

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3 minutes ago, tth2 said:

No, it's not okay.

If a dealer did that to me, I'd first take him to small claims court and then I'd post his name all over the internet.

Its not okay from anyone, dealer or not.  

But we are also taking Ankur's story at face value, there may be another side to the story.    Was there offer and acceptance, yada yada.

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3 minutes ago, Bronty said:

But we are also taking Ankur's story at face value, there may be another side to the story.    Was there offer and acceptance, yada yada.

He said "I had a dealer agree to a price on a piece at the Torpedo show (via online messaging)" so there appears to be an agreement in writing.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, tth2 said:

He said "I had a dealer agree to a price on a piece at the Torpedo show (via online messaging)" so there appears to be an agreement in writing.

probably. pm'd

Edited by Bronty

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I emailed comic connect to inquire about this piece and after 1 email exchange I requested to purchase the piece. They responded the piece is actually 5k and I can go on their website and make an offer. I told them that’s a nice way to get rid of a customer 👍🏽

RB

 

F732198F-5B34-49CF-BFBF-F89C1272D21F.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

Are those prices for purchase, or just "auction estimates" though?
Auction estimates are always low, to encourage bidding I thought.

Edited by ESeffinga

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24 minutes ago, ESeffinga said:

Are those prices for purchase, or just "auction estimates" though?
Auction estimates are always low, to encourage bidding I thought.

They had a lot of pieces offered at fixed price at the show. 

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All the pieces that are in that picture are the “buy it now” prices on their website. It’s just this one piece wasn’t listed yet.

Very bad behavior!

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More expensive OA has a floor price where it will never sell below.  Just an example.  HA has several Peanuts Dailies up for auction right now.  I have no strong interest in any of them, although some are pretty nice and I wouldn’t be upset with them in my collection.  With that said, if they are at a price below my threshold, I will bid on them until they are over my threshold even though I am not highly interested in them just because I see it as a good price for a piece that I will hold for many years.  I do not think I am alone in doing this.

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25 minutes ago, RICKYBOBBY said:

All the pieces that are in that picture are the “buy it now” prices on their website. It’s just this one piece wasn’t listed yet.

Very bad behavior!

Yeah, that's not cool.

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On 7/18/2019 at 12:19 AM, delekkerste said:

20190717_190901.jpg

20190717_190456.jpg

20190717_180641.jpg

20190717_172449.jpg

One of my favorite covers! 

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1 hour ago, RICKYBOBBY said:

I emailed comic connect to inquire about this piece and after 1 email exchange I requested to purchase the piece. They responded the piece is actually 5k and I can go on their website and make an offer. I told them that’s a nice way to get rid of a customer 👍🏽

RB

 

F732198F-5B34-49CF-BFBF-F89C1272D21F.jpeg

This had a $5000 sticker at the Con. They should honor that no? I took it as a fixed price item when I looked at it in person.

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40 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

More expensive OA has a floor price where it will never sell below.  Just an example.  HA has several Peanuts Dailies up for auction right now.  I have no strong interest in any of them, although some are pretty nice and I wouldn’t be upset with them in my collection.  With that said, if they are at a price below my threshold, I will bid on them until they are over my threshold even though I am not highly interested in them just because I see it as a good price for a piece that I will hold for many years.  I do not think I am alone in doing this.

Very solid point. I do agree this is an approach some collectors are using.

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5 hours ago, Bronty said:

Grapeape:   I think that’s just a sign of dealers having less and less inventory that they bought when they had access to the artists or while prices were still cheap.   As more and more of their inventory is bought at FMV at auction, double+ FMV asks become more and more the norm.  Not to say that anyone will pay that necessarily but they are going to be more choosy about which sales they take because they have more sunk into it.    When they say “I’ll happily take it home” what they are saying is “I’d rather take it home than get no return. I’ll wait for the perfect buyer.”

Very good point. The issue of trade is something we haven’t factored in. Some of these bloated prices could be protection against being locked into a low trade value. Having a crazy valuation or undisclosed price gives you room to “come down” or neutralize valuation items being offered in trade  to get a deal done.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, vodou said:

Comic art, by definition, being a luxury versus commodity marketplace means that the high margin:low volume sales model must prevail. As Bronty correctly states, the supply of art bought (or acquired as consignment) with a 1990s and earlier cost basis is diminishing very rapidly now. Why? Because even the deepest black hole collections are now being plumbed, or at least are preparing to be, at HA, CLink, and Metropolis (ComicConnect). Oh, and Hake's (lol). This means that what persisted for years, so-called 'fair' pricing and reasonable expected growth over time, was actually a market operating in exception to the sales model. Or more accurately, a few of us (but ever more and more over time) were taking advantage of information arbitrage as the hobby was expanding into the online age. Some of us (me) saw that arbitrage disappearing as early as late oughts and backed away from ongoing speculation. The margins (reward) just weren't there anymore to justify taking on new risk. Notably this is also when the bigger names in the professional dealer community started taking more consignments on, dealing less out their own wholly-owned inventory, and even stepped up consigning to auction themselves (some using certain unsavory methods to make sure nothing sold too cheap though). Some older and new entrants to professional dealing also entered the 'repping' end of things, which is just taking on consignments from artists (primary sales at 'zero cost basis' floor) instead of other collectors (non-primary with cost basis floor).

We're now at least a decade into this. And the overall situation is visibly threadbare. I know some of you still seem to flip things profitably in comic art. I'm happy for you, but not with my money ;)

Dealing luxury really does result in high margins and low volume, as a rule. And, if you're a very active buyer that insists on holding out for 'that one right guy' most of the time: inventory backlog on a climbing curve. Like Anthony's is. If he dropped his prices in half, I think half his inventory would sell in three months. But I don't think he can do that, cover his cost basis and his operating expenses and put enough in his pocket at the end to make it all worth it. That's the rub. Again, not for me, and not for over a decade.

Intelligent assessment of reality. In one way or another we members are saying the same thing. I think.....

when I buy I want a great deal

when I sell I don’t want to lose money. Inherently these are luxury items as you say and they come with the trappings of potential risk.

—there are pieces bought to flip or saved for permanent NFS collection 

—we want the market to stay healthy

•••the chat board is great

••¥ this is all good info with shared experiences good and bad. If an individual or dealer has what I want, I’m going to find a way to get it done. Even if I have to hold my nose.

But it has to be for a grail. The best art that I have was obtained from 1996-2004.

Folks can put any price they want. They can “take this one home” if not motivated to deal and sell.

We collectors reserve the right to exercise our common sense to not chase. Better to search on and earn the next great thing.

 

Edited by grapeape

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3 hours ago, grapeape said:

This had a $5000 sticker at the Con. They should honor that no? I took it as a fixed price item when I looked at it in person.

So that picture is before they realized their mistake and then put a $5k sticker on it?

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