SUPERMAN 4 VS ACTION COMICS 23 3 3

[Joshua33]

3 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Here is a copy of Action Comics #23 with an arrival date of February 23 penciled on it.

 

Lines up EXACTLY with the ON SALE DATE/ PUBLICATION DATE from DC. Like I said.

[Black Captain]

1 minute ago, Joshua33 said:

Lines up EXACTLY with the ON SALE DATE/ PUBLICATION DATE from DC. Like I said.

Good, now hopefully someone can provide a Superman #4 date. This is how these types of questions have been answered in the past.

[G.A.tor]

1 hour ago, Joshua33 said:

I cant help you if you want to go against DC itself. The "ON SALE DATE" published by DC COMICS in ACTION COMICS 22 is 02/15/1940. If you want to try and make an argument that the publisher would put the on sale date out there for their customers and then somehow tale the business risk of not making it available on said date... good luck to you. Dont think anybody is EVER gonna buy that one.

As for ACTION 23. THE UNITED STATES COPYRIGHT OFFICE didnt issue COPYRIGHT APPROVAL until 02/23/1940. The book cannot be sold BEFORE that date. 

End of discussion. 

If you want to try and introduce conjecture and hyperbole, that's all it is. The above are FACTS buddy. Sorry you dont like them. 

A book absolutely can be sold before a copyright registration. There’s no law against it. Copyright exists at the moment of creation. One registers if they wish to have legal right to bring lawsuit against infringement. I suspect dc would want this in place before release but you can’t say it “ can’t be sold” because that is erroneous 

[Joshua33]

11 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

A book absolutely can be sold before a copyright registration. There’s no law against it. Copyright exists at the moment of creation. One registers if they wish to have legal right to bring lawsuit against infringement. I suspect dc would want this in place before release but you can’t say it “ can’t be sold” because that is erroneous 

That is true, but I'd be willing to bet a quick phone call to DC asking if they've ever done that would solve that quickly. You're right. I should have said CAN'T BE SOLD WITH COPYRIGHT PROTECTION. And as we can all see by the book above. They didn't.

[G.A.tor]

7 minutes ago, Joshua33 said:

That is true, but I'd be willing to bet a quick phone call to DC asking if they've ever done that would solve that quickly. You're right. I should have said CAN'T BE SOLD WITH COPYRIGHT PROTECTION. And as we can all see by the book above. They didn't.

I’m guessing you are correct that major publishers stuck to post registration before they sold. Especially given the whole fawcett infringement issue that was on going at that time. 

And sites like dcindexes etc all get their on sale dates from this copyright issuance   

But that still doesn’t prove they were actually sold that day, but more than likely after that date  

Edited July 22, 2019 by G.A.tor

[Joshua33]

6 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

I’m guessing you are correct that major publishers stuck to post registration before they sold. Especially given the whole fawcett infringement issue that was on going at that time. 

And sites like dcindexes etc all get their on sale dates from this copyright issuance   

But that still doesn’t prove they were actually sold that day, but more than likely after that date  

So they're going to be right on the money with the on sale date of Action 23, but not Superman 4 which are 8 days apart, and both from the same company? C'mon man. This is getting goofy...

[G.A.tor]

11 minutes ago, Joshua33 said:

So they're going to be right on the money with the on sale date of Action 23, but not Superman 4 which are 8 days apart, and both from the same company? C'mon man. This is getting goofy...

Not what I’m saying. Dc surely released to distributors as soon as they were able. There are undoubtedly areas where distribution of books released a week to a month apart appeared on the newsstands at a myriad of different times. That’s all I’m saying. There’s tons of examples of books with date stamps sometimes more than a month after “release” due to distribution variances of the 1930s and 1940s. I’m sure some Superman 4s were sold on 2/16 and I’m sure some were well into March and later. Same with action 23. Some areas got 2/23 and some probably well into March. So one can’t definitely say one was available in all areas before the other. Nothing goofy about that. Just reality. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by G.A.tor

[Joshua33]

4 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

Not what I’m saying. Dc surely released to distributors as soon as they were able. There are undoubtedly areas where distribution of books released a week to a month apart appeared on the newsstands at a myriad of different times. That’s all I’m saying. There’s tons of examples of books with date stamps sometimes more than a month after “release” due to distribution variances of the 1930s and 1940s. I’m sure some Superman 4s were sold on 2/16 and I’m sure some were well into March and later. Same with action 23. Some areas got 2/23 and some probably well into March. So one can’t definitely say one was available in all areas before the other. Nothing goofy about that. Just reality. 

Ok. My apologies. I thought you were saying that no Superman 4s were sold prior to 02/23. I misunderstood the 'but more than likely after that date' comment. 

[N e r V]

House ad for Superman #4 from Action comics #22.

 

[N e r V]

If you look at the original house ads for the Superman comic it was advertised as being released in the first half of the month with on sale dates actually being moved up even earlier in the month as the series progressed.

 

 

I’m pretty sure Action comics was designed at that time to follow the Superman title later in the month in order to give them some space. It was a bit of a juggling act with both titles  that varied over time.

Edited July 22, 2019 by N e r V

[Crowzilla]

7 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

 Copyright exists at the moment of creation. One registers if they wish to have legal right to bring lawsuit against infringement.

This is true now, but is not the way US Copyright worked in 1938-1939.

[G.A.tor]

5 minutes ago, Crowzilla said:

This is true now, but is not the way US Copyright worked in 1938-1939.

Wonder if a lawyer would know hehe

[Crowzilla]

7 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

I’m guessing you are correct that major publishers stuck to post registration before they sold. Especially given the whole fawcett infringement issue that was on going at that time. 

And sites like dcindexes etc all get their on sale dates from this copyright issuance  

Whiz #2 and Master #1 were both on the newstands around the time of Action #23, there was no Fawcett lawsuit yet, the one against Master Man would come later in the year and the one against Captain Marvel the following year.

The registration notice and an "All Rights Reserved" phrase in the indicia was good enough that they would feel comfortable releasing as soon as it was ready from the printer, and it certainly would not be unheard of for a magazine to be available on the stands before it's advertised "on sale date".

[G.A.tor]

9 minutes ago, Crowzilla said:

Whiz #2 and Master #1 were both on the newstands around the time of Action #23, there was no Fawcett lawsuit yet, the one against Master Man would come later in the year and the one against Captain Marvel the following year.

The registration notice and an "All Rights Reserved" phrase in the indicia was good enough that they would feel comfortable releasing as soon as it was ready from the printer, and it certainly would not be unheard of for a magazine to be available on the stands before it's advertised "on sale date".

What about wonder man? 

And whiz 1 had been on the stands 2-3 months when supes 4& action 23 came out so I’m sure dc was already stirring at that point 

But yes, as I alluded to release dates were certain planned back then but I’m guessing rarely 100% accurate 

Edited July 22, 2019 by G.A.tor

[N e r V]

Here’s the next couple of Action comics with arrival dates still following close their listed dates and both coming out later in the month.

 

[Crowzilla]

2 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

What about wonder man? 

But yes, as I alluded to release dates were certain planned back then but I’m guessing rarely 100% accurate 

That was Fox. Your original post said Fawcett.

 

Here's a question. Action #23 notes also say first mention of The Daily Planet. Superman #4 also has Clark telling one of Luthor's henchmen that he is a reporter from the Planet.

What is the context of The Daily Planet mention in Action #23?

[G.A.tor]

6 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Here’s the next couple of Action comics with arrival dates still following close their listed dates and both coming out later in the month.

 

As mentioned, in areas closer to the printing facilities I’m sure on or even before dates can be found. But dates days or  weeks after can also be found I suspect 

We cant apply the current “street date” distribution model of today to what took place 50-80 years ago

Edited July 22, 2019 by G.A.tor

[G.A.tor]

3 minutes ago, Crowzilla said:

That was Fox. Your original post said Fawcett.

 

Here's a question. Action #23 notes also say first mention of The Daily Planet. Superman #4 also has Clark telling one of Luthor's henchmen that he is a reporter from the Planet.

What is the context of The Daily Planet mention in Action #23?

Fawcett was just an example. Wasn’t excluding, intentionally, other potential infringements 

 

i dont have a copy of action 23 handy so don’t recall. 

I just find it interesting 

Edited July 22, 2019 by G.A.tor

[Joshua33]

37 minutes ago, Crowzilla said:

This is true now, but is not the way US Copyright worked in 1938-1939.

Being that the copyrights were applied for and issued in 1940, wouldn't this be irrelevant?

[Crowzilla]

4 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

As mentioned, in areas closer to the printing facilities I’m sure on or even before dates can be found. But dates days or  weeks after can also be found I suspect 

We cant apply the current “street date” distribution model of today to what took place 50-80 years ago

Totally Agree.

When we think of street dates today, we think of one day a week where all product is released to the public (like Wednesdays now for comics, or Tuesdays for DVDs/CDs, even if the actual product has been in the warehouse for a week or more), but looking at advertised "on sale dates" and arrival dates on comics for these books, it was all over different days of the weeks, giving a lot of support to the "as soon as you get it, put it out on the stands" distribution model.

Look at the Superman ad on sale dates Nerv posted - #4 is on a Thursday (2/15) #5 is on a Friday (5/10), #6 is a Wednesday (7/10), #7 is a Tuesday (9/10), and the penciled arrival dates on the Actions he posted are Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.