Joshua33 Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, lou_fine said: +1 Yes, this is the exact same scenario as the Sandman in terms of Adventure Comics 40 and New York Eorld's Fair 1939. For the longest time, Overstreet used to incorrectly have Adventure 40 as the first appearance of Sandman, before finally correcting it in his guide. Now, he notes Adventure 40 as the first conceived Sandman story while he has NYWF 1939 as being the first published Sandman story. I believe Overstreet will eventually get around to doing this same long overdsue correction with Superman 4 and Action 23 if enough collectors point it out to him. Either way, even if it eventually gets corrected, I strongly doubt it will have much impact on the valuation between the 2 books, similar to how the valuation for Adventure 40 is still multiple times higher than the valuation for NYWF 1939. Agreed. It's obvious that Action 23 will always be more valuable, as Superman already knows the identity of Luthor in Superman 4. He knows because the first appearance of Luthor was written into Action 23. That doesn't change the fact that Superman 4 was released a full week earlier, though. That's all this thread was intending to demonstrate. Edited January 18, 2020 by Joshua33 Spell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skypinkblu Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Interesting thread... I own both books. I like the cover of Action 23 a little better and it was the first GA comic book I ever read so I'm a bit biased. I've also always thought that was Lois on the cover of Action 23. Otherwise they are both great books and anyone lucky enough to have a copy of either one, should be thrilled:) When I first saw the cover of Superman 4, I was SURE that it was Lex on the cover, because I grew up reading the SA books and Lex lost his hair as a teenager, so I figured he'd be bald as an adult;) Joshua33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Joshua33 said: Gonna start calling you OJay. If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit. Clearly shows the Superman 4 newsstand date as Feb 15th, which lines up directly with the release dates from DC and copyright granted. Action 23 did not hit newsstands until Feb 22nd, a full week later. This is upheld by DC and by the copyrights. Doesn't get more conclusive than that. You're repeating already failed arguments, and regurgitating information from "Mike's Amazing World Of Comics" website, which for the last time, itself disclaims that it is not an authoratative source. Still tilting at windmills. Oh, and Action 23 actually has the earlier copyright number, so you're still wrong about that too. Oh, and you may want to let DC know what the first appearance of their character is. They also still disagree with you. https://www.dccomics.com/characters/lex-luthor Keep tilting Don Quixote. Maybe somebody someone who matters will care. I'm out. -J. Edited January 18, 2020 by Jaydogrules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woowoo Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 February 15February 15 February 15 February 15 February 15 February 15 February 15 February 15 February 15 February 15 February 15 February 15 February 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicdonna Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThothAmon Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Market has spoken. No? Joshua33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicdonna Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, ThothAmon said: Market has spoken. No? Yes. Joshua33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua33 Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 9 hours ago, Jaydogrules said: You're repeating already failed arguments, and regurgitating information from "Mike's Amazing World Of Comics" website, which for the last time, itself disclaims that it is not an authoratative source. Still tilting at windmills. Oh, and Action 23 actually has the earlier copyright number, so you're still wrong about that too. Oh, and you may want to let DC know what the first appearance of their character is. They also still disagree with you. https://www.dccomics.com/characters/lex-luthor Keep tilting Don Quixote. Maybe somebody someone who matters will care. I'm out. -J. It's you with the failed argument. Not arguing the first appearance. Clearly stated and agreed that Action 23 was intended to be the first appearance. I also stated copyright GRANTED, not APPLIED FOR, which is where the numbers are assigned, by application date, not granted date. The proof is right there in the books published by DC. If you want to ignore it and cry like a petulant child, continue to do so, by all means. The market has spoken for Action 23, so do the interior pages. That still won't change the FACT that Superman 4 hit newsstands a week before Action 23. Math is really simple... 15th was BEFORE the 22nd. sacentaur and aardvark88 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woowoo Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Joshua33 said: It's you with the failed argument. Not arguing the first appearance. Clearly stated and agreed that Action 23 was intended to be the first appearance. I also stated copyright GRANTED, not APPLIED FOR, which is where the numbers are assigned, by application date, not granted date. The proof is right there in the books published by DC. If you want to ignore it and cry like a petulant child, continue to do so, by all means. The market has spoken for Action 23, so do the interior pages. That still won't change the FACT that Superman 4 hit newsstands a week before Action 23. Math is really simple... 15th was BEFORE the 22nd. Agree Joshua33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua33 Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, woowoo said: Agree Heres further proof for old Jay Dog too. Just found this on DCs direct website He was right, they didnt release on the granted date... they released in late March!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 32 minutes ago, Joshua33 said: Heres further proof for old Jay Dog too. Just found this on DCs direct website He was right, they didnt release on the granted date... they released in late March!!! And when does DC officially state Superman 4 was released ... ? https://m.readdc.com/Superman-1939-2011-4/digital-comic/T0823700045001 Oops. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woowoo Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said: And when does DC officially state Superman 4 was released ... ? https://m.readdc.com/Superman-1939-2011-4/digital-comic/T0823700045001 Oops. -J. From DC Edited January 18, 2020 by woowoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Kid Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) Change to "First Appearance of Lex Luthor in Action Comics Edited January 18, 2020 by Gotham Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, woowoo said: From DC I though 55 minutes ago, woowoo said: From DC So then this is literally all you have, huh? I suppose this is what happens when someone buys the wrong book for cheap (in comparison) and then wants to convince the masses that they're wrong, cheap book "should be" something it is not. And here I thought it was common knowledge those "on sale ads" often weren't reliable back then. DC says now it came out in June, 1940. I suppose they would know better now than an ad from 80 years ago. Just another one of many unfortunate flies in your ointment. So I think I'll stick with what DC says on its official website in 2020, and enjoy watching your windmill tilting from afar since I'm pretty sure you're just trolling at this point anyway. -J. Edited January 18, 2020 by Jaydogrules woowoo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said: 2 hours ago, Joshua33 said: Heres further proof for old Jay Dog too. Just found this on DCs direct website He was right, they didnt release on the granted date... they released in late March!!! And when does DC officially state Superman 4 was released ... ? https://m.readdc.com/Superman-1939-2011-4/digital-comic/T0823700045001 Oops. -J. I definitely wouldn't go by what DC is saying in those links which both of you have posted here. Based upon all we know and have seen with respect to comic book cover dates, the ones you are referring to here appears to line up more with recall dates for the books to be TAKEN off the shelves, as opposed to their actual release dates. Since Action 23 has a cover date of April 1940 and cover months have always been about 2 months after publication, then it only makes sense that Action 23 was pulished and released in April and then to be subsequently recalled and taken off the shelves in the late March or very early April time frame. Since Supe 4 is a Spring 1940 edition, there is no way it would have come out after the cover date and been release in the summer of 1940. All you have to do is take a look at the history of how comic book cover dates have always worked and it's quite obvious that both of these dates from the attached links cannot be their actual release dates. aardvark88 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woowoo Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Jaydogrules said: I though So then this is literally all you have, huh=? I suppose this is what happens when someone buys the wrong book for cheap (in comparison) and then wants to convince the masses that they're wrong, cheap book "should be" something it is not. And here I thought it was common knowledge those "on sale ads" often weren't reliable back then. DC says now it came out in June, 1940. I suppose they would know better now than an ad from 80 years ago. Just another one of many unfortunate flies in your ointment. So I think I'll stick with what DC says on its official website in 2020, and enjoy watching your windmill tilting from afar since I'm pretty sure you're just trolling at this point anyway. -J. Sounds like you worked for DC in 1940 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 I have not read all 14 pages of this thread, so forgive me if I cover anything that has already been discussed. Here is the panel from Action 23, where Superman has no clue who Luther is.... Here are the panels from Superman 4..... It appears DC "intended" for Superman to first "encounter" Luthor in Action 23. For now, I will let the experts (far more versed in these things than I am), to argue about which was released first and which should be the true "first appearance" of Luthor. *note for full disclosure - I am clearly bias anyway, as I am a bigger fan of Actions, than I am of Superman comics. comicdonna and skypinkblu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woowoo Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hudson said: I have not read all 14 pages of this thread, so forgive me if I cover anything that has already been discussed. Here is the panel from Action 23, where Superman has no clue who Luther is.... Here are the panels from Superman 4..... It appears DC "intended" for Superman to first "encounter" Luthor in Action 23. For now, I will let the experts (far more versed in these things than I am), to argue about which was released first and which should be the true "first appearance" of Luthor. *note for full disclosure - I am clearly bias anyway, as I am a bigger fan of Actions, than I am of Superman comics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 49 minutes ago, woowoo said: Problem is, Harold, you still want them at cover price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woowoo Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Hudson said: Problem is, Harold, you still want them at cover price. If it was a copy of Action 2 or 7 I pay more Hudson and Joshua33 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...